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cite="mid:AANLkTimCd1oXFeKZigceXP-kS=xaU-nL7D=T=V0Vhz_u@mail.gmail.com"
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<pre>James Wynn- Really, as Wolfe originally envisioned /The Book of the New Sun/,
there was no real change at the end. His publishers urged him to write /Urth
of the New Sun/. It was a bit of a compromise from Wolfe's perspective.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
Dave Tallman - No real change implies Severian failed at bringing
the New Sun in the original BotNS and this was rewritten for
UotNS?I think his success is foreshadowed and implied in the
original books. Without success, he couldn't have become either
the Conciliator or Apu Punchau. <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
It's funny. If I were going to give a theme to the Long Sun/Short
Sun novel, I would say it is /Transformation/. Rose into Marble.
Marble into all the things I say she became. Mint into the General
and then the Calde. Quetzel into a holy augur laying down his life
to get the pilgrims through the tunnels. Sinew into inhumi into the
Rajan's son. Kypris into the Outsider. Typhon's family digitized and
then becoming flesh again through possession. Cilinia into Scylla
into Oreb into dream-Cilinia into Urth Scylla. The Ayuntamiento into
chems, the lowest ranking citizens among the cargo. And then there's
the Rajan...Horn, Neighbor-man, Silk, Rajan, Incanto, Pike's ghost.
I mean just because the the novel ended in a literary sense in the
last chapter of RttW but narratively goes on into The Book of the
Long Sun, doesn't mean it isn't about Change. It's just that Wolfe
has tricked us about where the story began. This is major character
development.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:AANLkTimCd1oXFeKZigceXP-kS=xaU-nL7D=T=V0Vhz_u@mail.gmail.com"
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I think we need to dig up the references in support of your
Hyacinth theory at this point: Hyacinth's lightness, the context
in which Siikhorn says her victory over the soldier was a trick,
etc. Do you have those references now?<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I'll have look up the references for her lightness. Those were the
major references I knew I needed to look up. I know it is
referenced twice. Both times, I'm pretty sure, when Silk lifts her.
As for Hy subduing the pilot, that's easy. The reference is when
Silk is having his despondent conversation with Horn on the floater.
I think it is important to note that at the time he says this his
thoughts are consistently morbid.<br>
<br>
----------------------<br>
Silk nodded. "'Though he is not the son of my body, my son will<br>
succeed me.'"<br>
"Chenille's his real daughter, Nettle told me that too. And you're<br>
the next calde. So if she's your sister--"<br>
"We will go no further with this, Horn. It has nothing to do with<br>
our topic."<br>
"All right. I won't tell anybody."<br>
**"There are so many lies in the whorl that it's not likely anyone
would credit you if you did. May I instance one more? Hyacinth
subdued our pilot, Hyacinth alone. I mentioned it."**<br>
"Yes, Calde."<br>
"I've been trying to think of an enlightening analogy for you, but<br>
I can't. Suppose I were to say that it was like seeing Patera Incus<br>
overpower Auk. The analogy would be flawed because I've never<br>
supposed that Patera Incus could not fight, only that he would fight<br>
badly. I had imagined Hyacinth would be helpless in the face of<br>
violence; she spoke of taking fencing from Master Xiphias once, yet<br>
I never..."<br>
"I can't hear you. Can't you turn around this way?"<br>
"No. Come closer." Silk found Horn's hand and drew him nearer<br>
the edge.<br>
~ Exodus, Chapter 15<br>
--------------------<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:AANLkTimCd1oXFeKZigceXP-kS=xaU-nL7D=T=V0Vhz_u@mail.gmail.com"
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There's another reported fight where Hyacinth at least held her
own against Chenille. And Chenille (as the daughter of Tussah) has
at least a portion of SIlk's super-reflexes. She can throw a knife
with amazing accuracy, for example.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I'm not sure we can make to much of the knife-throwing. She was
possessed by Kypris at the time. However, she is a *big* girl.
"Mannish" is a good word for it, I'd say. The Trivigaunte leader
calls her a "virago", a word that implies etymologically a masculine
woman. Horn says she does not really look like Silk (who is beefy
himself), but if she were a man she would look like Auk. So little
Hyacinth taking her on is still significant.<br>
<br>
Additionally, I had the sense when reading The Book of the Long Sun,
the first time, that Hy and Chenille were sharing some kind of
secret which I presumed had to do with the way in which Hy seemed
"off". When I read of Fava and Mora, I saw their relationship as
analogous to Hy and Chenille's even before I associated Hy with
Fava. <br>
<br>
u+16b9<br>
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