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<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Lee Berman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:severiansola@hotmail.com">severiansola@hotmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote"><br>Yes, Prometheus is the perfect example to help me clarify what I am trying to get to.<br>Thanks.<br><br>
To his Greek believers Prometheus is the one who created humanity, invented arts and<br>sciences for them and of course stole fire for them. For his favoring of humanity, Zeus<br>chained Prometheus to a rocky mountain (Gyoll? Urth? Mt. Nebo?) until Heracles freed him.<br>
Prometheus' sister-in-law, Pandora, (cognate to Eve and Meschianne) is surely referenced<br>in BotNS. Prometheus sounds like a pretty good guy but I'm not sure he can be seen as<br>purposefully preparing humanity for Christianity. Arethere religious scholars who see<br>
Prometheus as a knowing Christian agent?<br><br>(FWIW, Heracles is the son of Zeus and Alcmene. She is Zeus' great granddaughter. I hope<br>it is clear why this is relevant to me).<br><br><br>Now, from a different perspective it seems the Judeo-Christian version of Prometheus is<br>
Azazel.<br><br>>According to the Book of Enoch, Azazel was a grigori (also known as "watchers"), a group<br>>of fallen angels who mated with mortal women, giving rise to a race of hybrids known as<br>>the Nephilim. As one of the leaders of the rebellious Watchers in the time preceding the<br>
>flood; he taught men the art of warfare, of making swords, knives, shields, and coats of<br>>mail, and women the art of deception by ornamenting the body, dyeing the hair, and<br>>painting the face and the eyebrows, and also revealed to the people the secrets of<br>
>witchcraft and corrupted their manners, leading them into wickedness and impurity; until<br>>at last he was, at the Lord's command, bound hand and foot by the archangel Raphael and<br>>chained to the rough and jagged rocks of [Ha] Duduael (= Beth Ḥadudo), where he is to<br>
>abide in utter darkness until the great Day of Judgment.<br><br></blockquote>
<div>Well...Azazel's role has been usurped for Christians at least by Lucifer, who, if he's read as the Serpent, sort of more directly maps to Prometheus anyway.</div>
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<div>But here the Hercules/Christ analogy breaks down pretty terribly. Christ defeats Satan, the fallen Lucifer. Hercules rescues Prometheus. If Wolfe is using these concepts in New Sun, and it isn't clear to me he is, then either he is segregating Lucifer and Prometheus or they are both Abaia/the black hole in the heart of the Sun.</div>
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<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote">The name Azazel means "the rugged" and can be derived to mean the "mightiest mountain".<br>
</blockquote>
<div>I know this is a common reading, but I dislike any reading of an angel's name that does not prioritize the "-el" suffix. Azazel is "the might of God."</div>
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<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote">He was the fallen angel most likely to take human form and is especially known as a<br>seducer of both women and men. Goat associations also connect Azazel with Pan and we have<br>
learned in the other thread about the Melek Taus connection between Pas/Pan, Azazel and<br>Typhon.<br></blockquote>
<div>I think this is fairly weak, to be honest.</div>
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<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote"><br>I think the BotNS connections of Azazel to Abaia and Typhon, mountains, witches,<br>beautification, war, wickedness and impurity and the Flood are striking.<br>
<br></blockquote>
<div>Where do you see Azazel in the Book of the New Sun?</div>
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<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote">To me, this illustrates the subtext of BotNS. It is like a Necker Cube or other optical<br>illusions. Shifting one's perspective gives a different view of the same thing. Heroic,<br>
self-sacrificing Prometheus to the Greeks is the corrupt, fallen angel Azazel to Judeo-<br>Christians. The helpful, skillful architect of the Commonwealth, Father Inire, is also a<br>corrupting influence and (in some manner) cousin to the all the evil presences on Urth<br>
and working with them, if also against them.<br><br>I think BotNS was written from a Judeo-Christian perspective and this explains the need for<br>a purifying Flood. Doesn't matter if Father Inire is viewed as Prometheus or Azazel, he<br>
is pagan and needs to go, to make way for something better.<br>
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