Well, that was right in front of me, Craig, and I missed it. We've been focused on the effect of Bax's lies on others, not their effect on himself.<br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 11:59 AM, John Watkins <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:john.watkins04@gmail.com">john.watkins04@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Craig Brewer <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cnbrewer@yahoo.com" target="_blank">cnbrewer@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif">Yep.<br>And a torturer can become a savior by acting like one.<br>And it adds a more meaningful dimension to Horn becoming Silk.<br>And a con-man can turn from the "evil twin" to the "good twin," etc., etc.<br>
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<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></b> John Watkins <<a href="mailto:john.watkins04@gmail.com" target="_blank">john.watkins04@gmail.com</a>>
<div><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b> The Urth Mailing List <<a href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net" target="_blank">urth@lists.urth.net</a>><br></div><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b> Mon, April 19, 2010 10:44:13 AM
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<div>My own take on New Sun is that the aliens are the dupes of the Increate. I have almost no textual support for this, except for the conversation in Long Sun in which someone (Incus?) says that if a demon pretends to be a god the god will convent them into himself. While Incus isn't necessarily the best guide, it's confirmed by the Outsider in Exodus:</div>
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<div>"As I am claiming Kypris even now because love always proceeds from me, real love, true love. First romance."<br></div>
<div>So if the Hieros are evil aliens duping Severian by pretending to be angels and archangels in the service of the Increate, they'll wind up being angels and archangels in the service of the Increate, at least indirectly and eventually. <br>
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<div>On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Craig Brewer <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cnbrewer@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">cnbrewer@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div>
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<div>>>One thing that's significant about Wolfe's reliance on unreliable narrators, and I think this is most explicit in Long Sun and Short Sun,<br>>>is that he's mirroring an >important aspect of Christian religious faith. Believers, for the most part, rely upon the Gospels, accounts<br>
>>that are, by their natural, unreliable. Wolfe seems to think that this is or can be a rational choice, but he's not interested in soft-pedalling<br>>>the complications this entails. But maybe there's a Chesteronian idea at work as well, which is that stories that are <em>compelling </em>are more<br>
>>likely to be true--that human beings naturally seek to order things into coherent and interesting narratives because we think that such<br>>>narratives best help us to make sense of the world.<br></div>
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<div><br>I like this a lot.<br><br>It also speaks to Severian's dilemma: could he just be a dupe of alien creatures AND an actual messiah figure? Even false things can be true.<br></div><br></div></div></div><br></div>
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