Zac,<br><br>Welcome aboard. <br><br>I had no idea that this was an undergrad thesis - I've barely even heard of those. To me, the word "thesis" conveys images of Ph.D.<br><br>I'm also sorry I was so harsh, but truly, I can't think of a single significant SF text that _does_ fit the description you give. The closest thing I can think of is the Curate in H.G. Wells' "The War of the Worlds," which is proto-SF in the meaning of the act. (SF proper really begins with Hugo Gernsback's identifying it as a genre, giving it a name, and providing it with a home, first in _The Electrical Expermenter_ and then in _Amazing Stories_.) <br>
<br>There are plenty of SF writers who are blatantly hostile to religion, but they don't seem to use priests as characters all that much. <br><br>I'd be interested in examples of what you're describing.<br><br>
--Dan'l<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 1:32 AM, Zachary Kendal <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:zackendal@optusnet.com.au">zackendal@optusnet.com.au</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><div></div><div class="h5">On 22/09/2009, at 3:34 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
--- On Mon, 9/21/09, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <<a href="mailto:danldo@gmail.com" target="_blank">danldo@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 4:26 PM,<br>
Gwern Branwen <<a href="mailto:gwern0@gmail.com" target="_blank">gwern0@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
Seems like a worthwhile thesis, although I wonder whether<br>
those 2<br>
priest archetypes are quite so universal - such a<br>
categorization would<br>
have difficulty with Frank Herbert, I think.<br>
<br>
<br>
... and Arthur Clarke ("The Star")<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
It's been a long time, but I have the impression the<br>
narrator's faith was shaken, not stirred.<br>
<br>
Do the priests or monks in "The Nine Billion Names of<br>
God" count?<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
... and Dan<br>
Simmons (Hyperion) ... and Mary Doria Russell (The Sparrow)<br>
... and Peter F. Hamilton (the Night's Dawn trilogy) ...<br>
and Walter M. Miller (A Canticle for Leibowitz) ... and Tony<br>
Boucher ("The Quest for St. Aquin") ... and ...<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
You've got some points there (as best I remember those<br>
books and stories).<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
The makings of at least one excellent doctoral thesis lies<br>
in the image of the (Catholic) priest in SF. However, this<br>
person's thesis ain't it.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Definitely not, if I'm right in thinking this is an<br>
undergrad thesis. However, hope is a virtue, I'm told.<br>
Maybe he'll get out of his stereotypes by doing the<br>
research.<br>
<br>
Jerry Friedman<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div></div>
Ouch! But I should probably introduce myself before taking up my own defence: Hi, I'm Zac, and, yes, I'm doing a thesis on Gene Wolfe. I know I really should have introduced myself earlier - before my blog became a topic of discussion (you couldn't have known I was lurking around the Urth mailing list) - but I was a little intimidated by how much everyone here seems to know about Wolfe's work.<br>
<br>
Anyway, I'll re-post here what I wrote on my blog in defence of my thesis topic (slightly edited to fit this context):<br>
<br>
"Thank you for your feedback. I fully acknowledge that I have a lot of research still to do - indeed, I have hardly begun. I also know that these broad categories I have set out above may not hold up under scrutiny - and like 99% of people writing theses, I will probably end up writing something quite different to that which I had originally planned.<br>
<br>
"I should have been clearer in my original post, but these crude 'stereotypes' are what I *currently* have the impression are dominant. I gather, from the limited research I have already done, that most SF with priests as protagonists (not peripheral or minor characters) either use the priest to challenge (or shake or debunk) the priest's faith, or to have it reaffirmed. These two categories are, of course, generalisations.<br>
<br>
"I *plan* to argue that Wolfe finds a middle ground between these two *dominant* approaches to the priest. That he manages to do both debunk *and* affirm aspects of Catholicism (ritual vs. spiritual?). I do not plan to argue that no other author has ever done the same and challenged these two approaches.<br>
<br>
"Thank you very much for your recommended texts - I'm currently in the process of planning my summer reading, and some of these were not yet on my list. And I will welcome any texts that may challenge these 'stereotypes' of mine.<br>
<br>
"It may also have been unclear in my post that this is an undergraduate thesis - a 15,000 word thesis that I will do in 2010 for my honours degree (we do things differently in Australia, I think). While the broad topic of the (Catholic) priest in SF would provide plenty to study for a PhD thesis, I am very restricted in both the time I have to research, and the length of my finished thesis."<br>
<br>
Dan'l Danehy-Oakes - I'm not entirely sure you have any right to be so negative about my thesis since (a) I haven't written it, and (b) you haven't read it. For all you know, my thesis could shake the foundations of SF studies and completely change the world... well, alright, I highly doubt that too - but it could happen?<br>
<br>
I realise that it is not very fair that I was reading these posts without your knowing, and I apologise. I would warmly welcome any constructive criticism that anyone might have. I am passionate about Wolfe's writing, and have been wanting to write on his work since I started my degree. Not much scholarship seems to have been written on Silk and BotLS, so I thought I would investigate how Wolfe uses his priest in an original and exciting way - since I believe that Wolfe is an important (and newsworthy, as gwern said) SF author... I'm sure that we can all agree on that much at least :)<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Zac<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Dan'l Danehy-Oakes<br>