brunians, are you a bona fide Southerner, or is your term for the American Civil War an affectation?<br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 6:20 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:brunians@brunians.org">brunians@brunians.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Actually, the way you tell that it's getting close to shoot-the-bastards<br>time is that *everyone*, including the cops, is talking about it getting<br>
close to shoot-the-bastards time, on one side of the argument or another,<br>depending on the loyalties of the region that you are in. Anyone disagrees<br>they keep quiet. That's how it was before the American Revolution and that<br>
is how it was before the War Between The States.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>.<br><br><br>> Into the streets with your Robin Hood hats!<br>><br>> Tear down the SUVs! tear down the McDonalds! Unite as Brothers! ;)<br>
> Burn the neocons at the stake like Giordano Bruno! Instatiate the<br>> Group of Seventeen for all time!<br>><br>><br>> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 3:11 PM, <<a href="mailto:urth-request@lists.urth.net">urth-request@lists.urth.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>> Send Urth mailing list submissions to<br>>> <a href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net">urth@lists.urth.net</a><br>>><br>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>>> <a href="http://lists.urth.net/listinfo.cgi/urth-urth.net" target="_blank">http://lists.urth.net/listinfo.cgi/urth-urth.net</a><br>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>>> <a href="mailto:urth-request@lists.urth.net">urth-request@lists.urth.net</a><br>>><br>>> You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
>> <a href="mailto:urth-owner@lists.urth.net">urth-owner@lists.urth.net</a><br>>><br>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>>> than "Re: Contents of Urth digest..."<br>
>><br>>><br>>> Today's Topics:<br>>><br>>> 1. Re: Gene Wolfe Fans Talk Politics (Again) (Adam Thornton)<br>>> 2. Re: Gene Wolfe Fans Talk Politics (Again) (<a href="mailto:brunians@brunians.org">brunians@brunians.org</a>)<br>
>> 3. Re: Gene Wolfe Fans Talk Politics (Again) (<a href="mailto:brunians@brunians.org">brunians@brunians.org</a>)<br>>> 4. Re: Gene Wolfe Fans Talk Politics (Again) (James Wynn)<br>>> 5. Re: Gene Wolfe Fans Talk Politics (Again) (David Stockhoff)<br>
>> 6. Re: Gene Wolfe Fans Talk Politics (Again) (David Stockhoff)<br>>> 7. Re: Urth Digest, Vol 57, Issue 30 (David Stockhoff)<br>>> 8. Re: Gene Wolfe Fans Talk Politics (Again) (David Stockhoff)<br>
>><br>>><br>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>>><br>>> Message: 1<br>>> Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 17:00:17 -0500<br>>> From: Adam Thornton <<a href="mailto:adam@io.com">adam@io.com</a>><br>
<div class="im">>> Subject: Re: (urth) Gene Wolfe Fans Talk Politics (Again)<br>>> To: The Urth Mailing List <<a href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net">urth@lists.urth.net</a>><br></div>>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:7128DCCE-0E7C-4291-A0FA-D5855BC96A02@io.com">7128DCCE-0E7C-4291-A0FA-D5855BC96A02@io.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes<br>>><br>>><br>>> On May 19, 2009, at 4:56 PM, <a href="mailto:brunians@brunians.org">brunians@brunians.org</a> wrote:<br>>><br>
>>> I calls them like I sees them. I prefer to look straight at things and<br>>>> name them plainly, rather than search for more comforting, euphemistic<br>>>> ways to express plain reality.<br>
>><br>>> Ah, but here is our fundamental disagreement: I don't think<br>>> "extortion" is any closer to "plain reality" than "dues."<br>>><br>>> I am, in fact, arguing that the reverse is true. But then I believe<br>
>> we probably, at heart, disagree on "plain reality."<br>>><br>>> Adam<br>>><br>>><br>>> ------------------------------<br>>><br>>> Message: 2<br>>> Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 18:03:48 -0400 (EDT)<br>
>> From: <a href="mailto:brunians@brunians.org">brunians@brunians.org</a><br>
<div class="im">>> Subject: Re: (urth) Gene Wolfe Fans Talk Politics (Again)<br>>> To: "The Urth Mailing List" <<a href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net">urth@lists.urth.net</a>><br></div>>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:14123.67.142.130.18.1242770628.squirrel@brunians.org">14123.67.142.130.18.1242770628.squirrel@brunians.org</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1<br>>><br>>> You're familiar with Thomas Jefferson, right Lane? They taught you about<br>>> him in law school or college or something, I am sure, and you are just<br>
>> pretending to be ignorant for rhetorical effect.<br>>><br>>> Go on with you: I am feeling favorably disposed towards you now and have<br>>> no real desire to explain Jeffersonianism to you, almost certainly<br>
>> falling<br>>> into one or more of your lawyerly traps along the way. I argue for fun,<br>>> not blood and would prefer not to engage with a professional unless you<br>>> tie one lobe of your brain behind your back or something.<br>
>><br>>><br>>><br>>> ...[W]hat country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not<br>>> warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of<br>>> resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as<br>
>> to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost<br>>> in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from<br>>> time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.<br>
>> It is its natural manure.<br>>><br>>> -- Thomas Jefferson<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> .<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>
>><br>>>> So your democratically-elected government gets to serve at the<br>>>> pleasure of a small but violent minority? I understand frustration<br>>>> with graft and waste, but calling for rebellion against a lawfully-<br>
>>> seated state for carrying out the will of society?<br>>>><br>>>> At some point, you realize the value in cooperation, community and<br>>>> shared society. All civilization is based on this premise, that<br>
>>> together a people can accomplish what one alone cannot.<br>>>><br>>>> The substitution of civil government/society with a profit driven<br>>>> market removes this universally-agreed as beneficial goal of<br>
>>> cooperation and replaced it with a unilateral goal of profit. As<br>>>> wealth cannot be created ex nihilo, profit must arise from a producer<br>>>> taking more than a product is worth. This is only possible on a market<br>
>>> where supply and demand are manipulated against the interest of the<br>>>> consumer.<br>>>><br>>>> Thus, the market is merely the latest iteration of the master-slave<br>>>> relation. It is the battlefield of class conflict. How does calling<br>
>>> taxes imposed by a lawful sovereign equal theft, but the creation of<br>>>> profit not equal extortion by a self-selected, undemocratic oligarchy?<br>>>><br>>>> Individuals and individual liberty are only meaningful insofar as a<br>
>>> civil legal system ensures they are protected. Authoritarian abuses by<br>>>> right and left ignore this. Free markets actively surpress it by<br>>>> economic manipulation.<br>>>><br>
>>> Tell me again why I should kill lawfully-seated ministers of the civil<br>>>> government to preserve the rights of the people exploiting me?<br>>>><br>>>> Sent from my iPhone<br>>>><br>
>>> On May 19, 2009, at 4:36 PM, <a href="mailto:brunians@brunians.org">brunians@brunians.org</a> wrote:<br>>>><br>>>>> I said this in a recent post. I will expand upon it.<br>>>>><br>
>>>> Taxation, the extortion of money from the citizens, is permissible for<br>>>>> things that are necessary. My list of necessary things includes the<br>>>>> military and things related to the military, infrastructure and<br>
>>>> certain<br>>>>> kinds of research. I insist that the involuntary nature of taxation be<br>>>>> explicit and resist the inevitable attempts at expansion of the<br>>>>> things-to-be-paid-for-by-taxation.<br>
>>>><br>>>>> Of course, as a good Jeffersonian, I believe that from time to time<br>>>>> it is<br>>>>> necessary to shoot the bastards and start over. We're not quite<br>
>>>> there yet.<br>>>>><br>>>>><br>>>>><br>>>>><br>>>>><br>>>>> .<br>>>>><br>>>>>> On May 19, 2009, at 4:19 PM, <a href="mailto:brunians@brunians.org">brunians@brunians.org</a> wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> But we (the people on the other side of the argument) are none of us<br>>>>>>> arguing for a complete lack of functional civil society and a<br>
>>>>>> Hobbesian<br>>>>>>> all-against-all. Were you under the impression that we were?<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> I don't see how you can get from the position that all taxation is<br>
>>>>> theft to the position that some governments are legitimate without<br>>>>>> giving up on the first one.<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Adam<br>
<div class="im">>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>>>>>> Urth Mailing List<br>>>>>> To post, write <a href="mailto:urth@urth.net">urth@urth.net</a><br>>>>>> Subscription/information: <a href="http://www.urth.net/" target="_blank">http://www.urth.net</a><br>
>>>>><br>>>>><br>>>>><br>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>>>>> Urth Mailing List<br>>>>> To post, write <a href="mailto:urth@urth.net">urth@urth.net</a><br>
>>>> Subscription/information: <a href="http://www.urth.net/" target="_blank">http://www.urth.net</a><br>>>> _______________________________________________<br>>>> Urth Mailing List<br>>>> To post, write <a href="mailto:urth@urth.net">urth@urth.net</a><br>
>>> Subscription/information: <a href="http://www.urth.net/" target="_blank">http://www.urth.net</a><br>>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br></div>>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>>> Message: 3<br>>> Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 18:05:56 -0400 (EDT)<br>>> From: <a href="mailto:brunians@brunians.org">brunians@brunians.org</a><br>
<div class="im">>> Subject: Re: (urth) Gene Wolfe Fans Talk Politics (Again)<br>>> To: "The Urth Mailing List" <<a href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net">urth@lists.urth.net</a>><br></div>>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:2352.67.142.130.18.1242770756.squirrel@brunians.org">2352.67.142.130.18.1242770756.squirrel@brunians.org</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1<br>>><br>>> Reality is what doesn't go away when you stop believing in it.<br>>><br>>> -- PKD (I think).<br>>><br>>> .<br>>><br>
>>> On May 19, 2009, at 4:56 PM, <a href="mailto:brunians@brunians.org">brunians@brunians.org</a> wrote:<br>>>><br>>>>> I calls them like I sees them. I prefer to look straight at things and<br>
>>>> name them plainly, rather than search for more comforting, euphemistic<br>>>>> ways to express plain reality.<br>>>><br>>>> Ah, but here is our fundamental disagreement: I don't think<br>
>>> "extortion" is any closer to "plain reality" than "dues."<br>>>><br>>>> I am, in fact, arguing that the reverse is true. But then I believe<br>>>> we probably, at heart, disagree on "plain reality."<br>
>>><br>>>> Adam<br>
<div class="im">>>> _______________________________________________<br>>>> Urth Mailing List<br>>>> To post, write <a href="mailto:urth@urth.net">urth@urth.net</a><br>>>> Subscription/information: <a href="http://www.urth.net/" target="_blank">http://www.urth.net</a><br>
>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br></div>
<div class="im">>> ------------------------------<br>>><br>>> Message: 4<br>>> Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 17:06:05 -0500<br>>> From: "James Wynn" <<a href="mailto:crushtv@gmail.com">crushtv@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: (urth) Gene Wolfe Fans Talk Politics (Again)<br>>> To: "The Urth Mailing List" <<a href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net">urth@lists.urth.net</a>><br>>> Message-ID: <BD4FACD5AAA943568DAC238C1E3F3911@eMachinePC><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";<br>>> reply-type=response<br>>><br>>> Adam, in "The Devil in a Forest", Wolfe presents the issue moral terms.<br>
>> If<br>>> I'm benefiting from a service more than my neighbor, and also paying<br>>> less<br>>> for that service than my neighbor, why is that less shameful than just<br>>> going<br>>> to his door and demanding the money?<br>
>> Okay. Here are your three options:<br>>><br></div>
<div class="im">>>>Adam sez:<br>>>>Of course, "fund it to the same degree," and "robbing from the rich to<br>>>>give to the poor," each themselves admit multiple interpretations.<br>
>>>One way of "funding it to the same degree" would be to demand a flat<br>>>>amount from each citizen.<br>>><br>>> This is actually is the most fair way. But, that's asking way too much<br>
>> fairness from a society of Fallen human beings. On the other hand, if<br>>> the<br>>> poor don't like it, I suppose they could move to Mogadishu.<br>>><br></div>
<div class="im">>>>One way would be to impose the same percentage fee on each citizen,<br>>>>regardless of income. This is usually what Libertarians claim to like.<br>>>>However, such a plan ignores the (I think fairly important) observation<br>
>>>that the marginal value of money decreases the more of it you have.<br>>><br>>> Marginal value decreases for whom? Not to the people who work to earn<br>>> it.<br>>> You're argument divorces the amount of money made from the people who<br>
>> created it. It assumes that a guy making $25K a year is exactly like the<br>>> guy<br>>> making $250K a year except that one happens to make less. It ignores the<br>>> risks the second guy took in capital, time, and effort in order to<br>
>> create<br>>> that wealth. It also ignores the fact that the first guy gets far more<br>>> BENEFIT from non-essential government services that the second guy. Some<br>>> would say the differences therefore balance out so that both should pay<br>
>> the<br>>> same rate.<br>>><br></div>
<div class="im">>> The real reason has nothing to do with marginal values of money. It has<br>>> to<br>>> do with practicality. These services are proposed to get a majority of<br>>> the<br>>> voting public to like them. So you give out benefits to a larger number<br>
>> and<br>>> have a smaller number pay the freight. No majority will not vote for 95%<br>>> of<br>>> government services if they are seen as fee-for-service. You probably<br>>> wouldn't. David Stackhoff implied that he found the idea increased taxes<br>
>> appealing because he didn't think he'd pay the bulk of them (or any of<br>>> them?).<br>>><br></div>>>>Hence a third way would be to impose a tax that causes the same amount<br>>>> of<br>
>>>inconvenience at all levels of income. This is approximately what<br>>>>progressive income taxes attempt to do.<br>>><br>>> How does a progressive tax provide "the same amount of inconvenience at<br>
>> all<br>>> levels of income"? Or do you mean "we'll tax you more if you have more<br>>> and<br>>> we'll do the same to other guy who has more too"? What if we taxed every<br>
>> one<br>>> making $35K-$50K at 95% and everyone else at 15%. Is that equally<br>>> logical?<br>>> But we don't just tax based on income either, do we? Because this is<br>>> democracy in action. The law-makers cut breaks for certain voting blocks<br>
>> (home-owners, parents, college students, and retirees) while busting<br>>> others<br>>> (cigarette smokers and people who drive for a living).<br>>><br>>>> "Robbing from the rich to give to the poor," is simply the same<br>
>>> argument<br>>>> stood on its head, of course. Does taxation go from "legitimate" to<br>>>> "robbery" at a value derived from the absolute dollar value of the<br>>>> tax,<br>
>>> from a percentage of income across all income ranges, or to a degree<br>>>> of<br>>>> inconvenience across all income ranges?<br>>><br>>> How can I describe a progressive tax? Say five citizens get together to<br>
>> fund<br>>> a new well. Hmmm...they could all pay the same amount to dig it, or they<br>>> could all pay the same percentage of their wealth, OR....they could vote<br>>> that Moe here--who also has a lake on his property so he doesn't need<br>
>> the<br>>> well---will pay for half of it because, after all, he can "afford it".<br>>> How<br>>> is that different from a two foxes and a hen voting on what to have for<br>>> supper?<br>
>><br>>> J.<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> ------------------------------<br>>><br>>> Message: 5<br>>> Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 18:06:46 -0400<br>>> From: David Stockhoff <<a href="mailto:dstockhoff@verizon.net">dstockhoff@verizon.net</a>><br>
<div class="im">>> Subject: Re: (urth) Gene Wolfe Fans Talk Politics (Again)<br></div>>> To: <a href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net">urth@lists.urth.net</a><br>>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4A132D76.3090700@verizon.net">4A132D76.3090700@verizon.net</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed<br>>><br>>> Yeah, Mao and Washington would have found much in common.<br>>><br>>><br>>> --- On Tue, 5/19/09, <a href="mailto:brunians@brunians.org">brunians@brunians.org</a> <<a href="mailto:brunians@brunians.org">brunians@brunians.org</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>>><br>>><br>>>> > From: <a href="mailto:brunians@brunians.org">brunians@brunians.org</a> <<a href="mailto:brunians@brunians.org">brunians@brunians.org</a>><br>>>> > Mao was a perceptive guy about some<br>
>>> > things. Power and how to use it, for<br>>>> > instance. Decent poet also, I'm told.<br>>>> ><br>>>> > Not a very nice man, but pretty smart.<br>>>> ><br>
>>> > If three people as different as Mao, Washington and Geller<br>>>> > agree about<br>>>> > something, I'd say it's time to sit up and take notice.<br>>>> ><br>>>> ><br>
>>> ><br>>>> ><br>>>> ><br>>>> > .<br>>>> ><br>>>> ><br>>>><br>>>>> > > If Mao said it, it must be true.<br>>>>> > ><br>
>>>> > > ------------------------------<br>
<div class="im">>><br>>><br>>> ---<br>>> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.<br>>> Virus Database (VPS): 090519-0, 05/19/2009<br></div>>> Tested on: 5/19/2009 6:06:48 PM<br>
<div class="im">>> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software.<br>>> <a href="http://www.avast.com/" target="_blank">http://www.avast.com</a><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>
</div>>> ------------------------------<br>>><br>>> Message: 6<br>>> Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 18:08:42 -0400<br>>> From: David Stockhoff <<a href="mailto:dstockhoff@verizon.net">dstockhoff@verizon.net</a>><br>
<div class="im">>> Subject: Re: (urth) Gene Wolfe Fans Talk Politics (Again)<br></div>>> To: <a href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net">urth@lists.urth.net</a><br>>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4A132DEA.20907@verizon.net">4A132DEA.20907@verizon.net</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed<br>>><br>>> Of course you have.<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> ------------------------------<br>>><br>>> Message: 5<br>
>> Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 17:44:27 -0400 (EDT)<br>>> From: <a href="mailto:brunians@brunians.org">brunians@brunians.org</a><br>
<div class="im">>> Subject: Re: (urth) Gene Wolfe Fans Talk Politics (Again)<br>>> To: "The Urth Mailing List" <<a href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net">urth@lists.urth.net</a>><br></div>>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4290.67.142.130.18.1242769467.squirrel@brunians.org">4290.67.142.130.18.1242769467.squirrel@brunians.org</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1<br>>><br>>><br>>>> > Somalia's economy is not "based on" piracy. It was based on fishing<br>>>> and<br>>>> > herding before global shipping killed all the fish.<br>
>>><br>>><br>>> The fishing went away because Somalia, lacking a government, lacks a<br>>> Coast<br>>> Gaurd (see my post about necessary things which may be paid for by<br>>> taxation) and therefore every industrial fishing boat in the world went<br>
>> there to glom on their fish.<br>>><br>>> I think that bits of herding still go on.<br>>><br>>> Somalia has been a pit for centuries. How did the Italians do running<br>>> it?<br>>> I've been in favor of giving large chunks of Africa back to the colonial<br>
>> powers for some time now.<br>
<div class="im">>><br>>><br>>><br>>> ---<br>>> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.<br>>> Virus Database (VPS): 090519-0, 05/19/2009<br></div>>> Tested on: 5/19/2009 6:08:44 PM<br>
<div class="im">>> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software.<br>>> <a href="http://www.avast.com/" target="_blank">http://www.avast.com</a><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>
</div>>> ------------------------------<br>>><br>>> Message: 7<br>>> Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 18:10:38 -0400<br>>> From: David Stockhoff <<a href="mailto:dstockhoff@verizon.net">dstockhoff@verizon.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: (urth) Urth Digest, Vol 57, Issue 30<br>>> To: <a href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net">urth@lists.urth.net</a><br>>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4A132E5E.9060401@verizon.net">4A132E5E.9060401@verizon.net</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed<br>>><br>>> Thank you for this.<br>>><br>>> ------------------------------<br>>><br>>> Message: 7<br>>> Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 16:51:17 -0500<br>
>> From: Lane Haygood <<a href="mailto:lhaygood@gmail.com">lhaygood@gmail.com</a>><br>
<div class="im">>> Subject: Re: (urth) Gene Wolfe Fans Talk Politics (Again)<br>>> To: The Urth Mailing List <<a href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net">urth@lists.urth.net</a>><br></div>>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:9C6B0298-D857-46D7-80F4-0E74FA6F4720@gmail.com">9C6B0298-D857-46D7-80F4-0E74FA6F4720@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed;<br>>> delsp=yes<br>>><br>>> ...<br>>> The substitution of civil government/society with a profit driven<br>>> market removes this universally-agreed as beneficial goal of<br>
>> cooperation and replaced it with a unilateral goal of profit. As<br>>> wealth cannot be created ex nihilo, profit must arise from a producer<br>>> taking more than a product is worth. This is only possible on a market<br>
>> where supply and demand are manipulated against the interest of the<br>>> consumer.<br>>><br>>> Thus, the market is merely the latest iteration of the master-slave<br>>> relation. It is the battlefield of class conflict. How does calling<br>
>> taxes imposed by a lawful sovereign equal theft, but the creation of<br>>> profit not equal extortion by a self-selected, undemocratic oligarchy?<br>>><br>>> Individuals and individual liberty are only meaningful insofar as a<br>
>> civil legal system ensures they are protected. Authoritarian abuses by<br>>> right and left ignore this. Free markets actively surpress it by<br>>> economic manipulation.<br>>> ...<br>
<div class="im">>><br>>><br>>><br>>> ---<br>>> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.<br>>> Virus Database (VPS): 090519-0, 05/19/2009<br></div>>> Tested on: 5/19/2009 6:10:42 PM<br>
<div class="im">>> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software.<br>>> <a href="http://www.avast.com/" target="_blank">http://www.avast.com</a><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>
</div>>> ------------------------------<br>>><br>>> Message: 8<br>>> Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 18:11:51 -0400<br>>> From: David Stockhoff <<a href="mailto:dstockhoff@verizon.net">dstockhoff@verizon.net</a>><br>
<div class="im">>> Subject: Re: (urth) Gene Wolfe Fans Talk Politics (Again)<br></div>>> To: <a href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net">urth@lists.urth.net</a><br>>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4A132EA7.2030908@verizon.net">4A132EA7.2030908@verizon.net</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed<br>>><br>>> I always try to keep that in mind when I read your posts.<br>>><br>>> ------------------------------<br>>><br>
>> Message: 8<br>>> Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 17:51:36 -0400 (EDT)<br>>> From: <a href="mailto:brunians@brunians.org">brunians@brunians.org</a><br>
<div class="im">>> Subject: Re: (urth) Gene Wolfe Fans Talk Politics (Again)<br>>> To: "The Urth Mailing List" <<a href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net">urth@lists.urth.net</a>><br></div>>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:10065.67.142.130.18.1242769896.squirrel@brunians.org">10065.67.142.130.18.1242769896.squirrel@brunians.org</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1<br>>><br>>><br>>>> > By the way, who is Josh Geller? (When I ask it that way,<br>>>> > the initials are a little disturbing.)<br>>>><br>
>><br>>> Late twentieth - early twenty-first century aphorist.<br>>><br>>> "Never postulate conspiracy when stupidity will explain the known<br>>> facts."<br>>><br>>> -- Geller's Second Law<br>
<div class="im">>><br>>><br>>><br>>> ---<br>>> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.<br>>> Virus Database (VPS): 090519-0, 05/19/2009<br></div>>> Tested on: 5/19/2009 6:11:52 PM<br>
<div class="im">>> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software.<br>>> <a href="http://www.avast.com/" target="_blank">http://www.avast.com</a><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> Urth Mailing List<br>>> To post, write <a href="mailto:urth@urth.net">urth@urth.net</a><br>
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