<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 9:26 PM, Jerry Friedman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jerry_friedman@yahoo.com">jerry_friedman@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
--- On Mon, 4/20/09, Matthew Weber <<a href="mailto:palaeologos@gmail.com">palaeologos@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> From: Matthew Weber <<a href="mailto:palaeologos@gmail.com">palaeologos@gmail.com</a>><br>
> Subject: Re: (urth) PF as YA<br>
> To: <a href="mailto:jerry_friedman@yahoo.com">jerry_friedman@yahoo.com</a>, "The Urth Mailing List" <<a href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net">urth@lists.urth.net</a>><br>
> Date: Monday, April 20, 2009, 3:42 PM<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5">> On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Friedman<br>
> <<a href="mailto:jerry_friedman@yahoo.com">jerry_friedman@yahoo.com</a>>wrote:<br>
> > --- On Mon, 4/20/09, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes<br>
> <<a href="mailto:danldo@gmail.com">danldo@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> > ...<br>
> ><br>
> > > The relevant question here -- and it's one<br>
> which I<br>
> > > don't know the<br>
> > > answer to -- is,<br>
> > > "what if a widower becomes a priest and it<br>
> turns out<br>
> > > his wife isn't dead after<br>
> > > all?" My guess is that this would become an<br>
> exception,<br>
> > > because neither the<br>
> > > sacrament of matrimony nor that of holy orders<br>
> can be<br>
> > > "undone."<br>
> ><br>
> > As I recall, there's such a thing as a conditional<br>
> baptism.<br>
> > You're making me wonder whether there's a<br>
> conditional<br>
> > ordination in cases where there's some doubt about<br>
> whether<br>
> > the wife is really dead. Of course, if there's<br>
> much<br>
> > doubt, I imagine the widower couldn't be ordained,<br>
> but<br>
> > what about the case of a shipwreck or plane crash<br>
> where<br>
> > it's practically certain that no one survived, but<br>
> no<br>
> > bodies were recovered?<br>
</div></div>...<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> No, a conditional ordination would be when there's<br>
> doubt that a person has<br>
> been ordained validly. Sacraments *sub conditione *are<br>
> administered when<br>
> there is some kind of doubt as to the validity of a<br>
> previous bestowal (as<br>
> also with baptism or confirmation; the RCC will<br>
> conditionally re-baptize or<br>
> confirm if an initiate is unsure whether he has been<br>
> previously baptized or<br>
> confirmed, or if the person has been baptized with a<br>
> non-Trinitarian formula).<br>
</div>...<br>
<br>
Thanks for the information. It seems that if they could<br>
baptize on that condition they could administer other<br>
sacraments on other conditions, but I believe you that<br>
they don't.<br><div><div class="h5"><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>Oh, they do; but an ordination sub conditione isn't the circumstance of "we're ordaining you presuming that you're single," but the condition of "we're re-ordaining you because there is reason to doubt your first ordination." In other words, an ordination isn't invalidated if the cleric is found to be married after all (and never could be).<br clear="all">
<br>-- <br>Matt +<br><br>Inferiors revolt in order that they may be equal, and equals that they may be superior. Such is the state of mind which creates revolutions.<br> Aristotle (384-322 B.C.), Politics, bk. V, ch. 2<br>