<div>Jerry, </div>
<div> </div>
<div>My understanding is that, to a 1st century Jew, the teaching about turning the other cheek when slapped wouldn't be a teaching about self-defense at all--the slap wasn't a threat of physical injury so much as it was a profound insult. A more equivalent saying today would be that if someone spits in your face, don't strike him, but wipe it off and offer your face again.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Clearly it isn't difficult to differentiate between retributive punishement ("eye for an eye") and self-defense. Our law does it all the time.<br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Jerry Friedman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jerry_friedman@yahoo.com">jerry_friedman@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"><br>--- On Tue, 3/17/09, <a href="mailto:brunians@brunians.org">brunians@brunians.org</a> <<a href="mailto:brunians@brunians.org">brunians@brunians.org</a>> wrote:<br>
Brunians: > >> You don't think kids should be trained to fight<br>> when<br>> >> someone tries to molest them?<br>> > ...<br><br>Jerry: > > I do, but I'm not a Christian.<br><br>Brunians: > You think that Christians think that?<br>
<br>I don't think I implied that. Whether I did or not, what<br>I had in mind was that as I'm a non-Christian, my opinion<br>on this point is irrelevant to understanding /Pirate<br>Freedom/, a book with an explicitly Christian background.<br>
<br>As it happens, I know a few Christians (Mennonites) who<br>believe in non-resistance in general, or say they do, and<br>a number of Christians who clearly don't.<br><br>Obviously, Wolfe has some of his Christian characters<br>
believe that children shouldn't fight even to defend<br>themselves against molestation. However, /Pirate Freedom/<br>takes place in the future or in an alternate universe, and<br>I don't know whether he's basing those characters on real<br>
priests.<br><br>> > As the statement came from<br>> > a Catholic priest, it surprised me greatly. Jesus<br>> > says in<br>> > the Sermon on the Mount that you shouldn't resist<br>> > evil (Matt. 5:39).<br>
><br>> He says 'turn the other cheek', that is, one time.<br>> He doesn't say keep on<br>> turning again and again like some kind of bobbly-head<br>> critter on the dashboard.<br>...<br><br>38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I tell you not to resist an evildoer. On the contrary, whoever slaps you on the right cheek, turn the other to him as well.”<br>
<br>(Matt. 5, International Standard Version, chosen more or less<br>at random.)<br><br>Jesus said not to resist an evildoer, period. Not to accept<br>evil the first time and resist it the second. We're free to<br>disagree with what he said, and I do, but my question is what<br>
Wolfe thinks.<br><br>However, I learn (finally) that Father Chris's comments are<br>consistent with the Catholic Church's doctrine, at least<br>as of 1912.<br><br>"While differing among themselves on some of the more<br>
subtle and less practical points comprised in this topic,<br>our moralists may be said to be unanimous on the main<br>principles and their application regarding the right of<br>self-defense.<br><br>[skip "Defense of life and person" and "Defense of property"]<br>
<br>"Honor<br><br>"Since it is lawful to take life in the legitimate defense<br>of one's material goods, it is evidently also lawful to do<br>so in defense of chastity which is a good of a much higher<br>order."<br>
<br>[The paragraph goes on to say it's not lawful to kill in<br>defense of honor or reputation.]<br><br><a href="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13691a.htm" target="_blank">http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13691a.htm</a><br>
<br>I don't know how Aquinas and others reconciled that with<br>Jesus's teachings, but apparently they did. So this makes<br>me give less credence to the theory that Chris is<br>supposed to be an evil character, as suggested at<br>
<br><a href="http://community.livejournal.com/theinferior4/199336.html" target="_blank">http://community.livejournal.com/theinferior4/199336.html</a><br><br>Jerry Friedman<br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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