Your point about the fall is an interesting one. I'll have to think about that, as it's a great point.<br><br><br>This though, I don't get at all: "And why not a single instantiation of Christ for the whole universe?
If the death of an infinite being suffices for the redemption of all
creation, what's the sense of repeating it?"<br><br>Isn't part of the Christian faith that one has to come to God through Christ? It's not a simple as "Christ died, everyone is redeemed, case closed." If that were the case, what would the need be for a Catholic Church. One has to come to know Christ, and attempt to live in, through, him. To follow his example, To become "christ" like. How does one do that if you've never had the opportunity to hear of him?<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:19 AM, Matthew Weber <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:palaeologos@gmail.com">palaeologos@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
All that depends on whether the Fall occurred on other planets as well; or perhaps whether the Fall on Earth puts all of Creation in the same boat, soteriologically speaking.<br><br>C.S. Lewis addressed this issue in the first two books of his Space Trilogy, and comes to a different conclusion from what Wolfe's appears to be. Lewis suggests that a Fall is possible on every planet individually, while Wolfe (as I read him, anyway) seems to be saying that the Fall was creation-wide, and that the one appearance of Christ on Earth suffices for the whole cosmos.<br>
<br>And why not a single instantiation of Christ for the whole universe? If the death of an infinite being suffices for the redemption of all creation, what's the sense of repeating it?<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Jordon Flato <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jordonflato@gmail.com" target="_blank">jordonflato@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Man, I was just coming on to lay out some ideas only to see that you've beaten me to the punch on some of them, Witz.<br><br>One of the big points that always roils around in my head with this issue of "Christ", "Quasi-Christ," etc., is the notion that the Catholic or indeed Christian notion of a singular and non repeatable instance of Christ seems to be an entirely and unabashedly geocentric vision. The world of New Sun in an interstellar, and indeed interdimensional one. Are we to believe that Christ, in this world, if he *was* a part of the history and metaphysics of Briah, would appear in a single instance on a single planet eons in the past, and never have influence as redeemer on any other world? How would a Catholic worldview have to adjust itself to incorporate the reality of a universe teeming with life and intelligence? Hasn't Wolfe tried to tackle this question in New Sun? Why do we not discuss it in the context of this work? <br>
<br>When we argue about "Is Severian a Christ or Christ-instance" it is still soley from the point of view of Urth as the sole center of Christ's influence, or the increates influence (I'm generalizing grossly with the 'we argue' part, as there have no doubt been disucssion to add this dimension in the past). <br>
<br>So, if Severian is not an instance of The Christ (which I am more and more inclined to believe he is not), can there ever have beenany unique instance of "the christ" in Sev's universe, knowning that life is teeming across the universe? Do we have to invent a unique instance of Christ on every planet with intellegent life in order to square this with Catholic theology? Or do we write off the rest of these civilizations as simply damned?<br>
<br>We know "God" exists in the universe of New Sun, because of The Outsider (well, that is how I take it anyway). As does Jesus, who we can recognize through some of Silks visions. How does this square with a much wider, much bigger universe.<br>
<br>How can Christ have been a single instantation, never to be repeated, in a universe like this? And if he WAS, don't we have to completely re-write our understanding of a merciful God?<br><br>This isn't as well thought out as I'd like. I'll probably revist it later....<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div><font color="#888888">-- <br>Matt +<br><br>In the early days of his power, he is full of smiles, and he salutes everyone whom he meets.<br> Plato (c. 428-348 B.C.), The Republic, bk. VIII, 566-D<br>
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