<div>I don't know about Paul, but I'd be more interested if we focus on the question of whether the Hierogrammates are intended to be (unfallen) angels by Gene Wolfe. Without my books at hand, the argument for this appears to be:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>1) "Holy" is part of their name. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>2) Tzadkiel has a winged form that Severian identifies as an angel.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>3) Severian thinks Hierogrammates serve the Increate.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>4) Wolfe referred to Tzadkiel as an "angel" in an interview. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>The argument against the Hierogrammates being angels, as I understand it, is</div>
<div> </div>
<div>1) Catholic theology posits that angels are perfectly moral, but the Hierogrammates frequently engage in morally dubious if not outright evil behavior.</div>
<div><br>2) Hierogrammates, unlike angels, are not direct creations of God. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>3) Most of the arguments that Hierogrammates are angels are hearsay. </div>
<div> </div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">I think these are both colorable arguments, but I come down on the "not" side. The Hierogrammates are obviously <em>spoken of </em>as angels, but they are just as obviously not two things that are <em>essential </em>to the meaning of the word "angel."</span></div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote"></span> </div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 7/18/08, <b class="gmail_sendername">b sharp</b> <<a href="mailto:bsharporflat@hotmail.com">bsharporflat@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:</span></div>
<div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"><br>The discussion would become quite interesting if Paul B was a Christian. Are you Paul?<br><br>I really have no quarrel with a person who accepts no entity as a moral superior and who<br>
holds God and angels to the highest standards of his own morality. In the real world.<br><br>But this is fiction. Do Wolfe's intentions matter at all? Paul, if you are arguing that the<br>Hierogrammates are of questionable morality by your standards I think your point is made,<br>
very, very clearly.<br><br>If you are arguing that the Hierogrammates are of sub-angelic status by Wolfe's standards<br>I think you need to use a lot more text quotes to support that.<br><br>But either way, answering that simple question would clarify this entire discussion:<br>
<br>Are you judging the Hierogrammates by your moral standards or Wolfe's?<br><br>-bsharp<br>_________________________________________________________________<br>Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger.<br>
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</blockquote></div><br>