<div dir="ltr">I'm curious why you think it'd be more interesting - is it because then I'd have to solve the Problem of Evil? I already said I didn't have a solution for it.<br><br>As for a hypothetical Wolfe-view of the Hierogrammates, I suspect his moral worldview is certainly Christian-influenced. Christianity is a very deontological religion, I think, more so than say Judaism (the latter permits exceptions to things that are uniformly forbidden in Christianity). God (somehow - Wolfe solved this one in private) gets an exception from the moral duties the rest of us have, and the Christian angels - whom I've never heard to act in self-interest - can be privy to whatever exception God is granted as his tools. Everyone else has to play by the rules, unless God personally grants them an exemption (Abraham).<br>
<br>However, the Hierogrammates are quite different from Christian angels, if you'd like I'll restate the textual references I suggested earlier, and which were strengthened by Roy, me being without UotNS.<br><br>
1.) Hierogrammates are human creations. (Apheta, UotNS) <br>2.) They are acting in avowed self-interest, so that the future Hieros will recreate them. (Apheta again)<br>3.) They are mortal. (Tzadkiel's son dies)<br>
4.) Their foresight is imperfect - they do not have certainty of the outcome of their actions. (Tzadkiel at the trial)<br><br>This simply doesn't add up to an angelic nature. They might pass for Biblical prophets (except for the human creation and self-interest parts), but those were never under any moral exemption. <br>
If God came down and literally told them they must drown Urth as such was his will, Apheta or Tzadkiel probably would have mentioned that as a much more compelling and palatable reason than what they gave (worked for Isaac, sorta). As mortal free agents, however, they have to obey all the deontological principles the framework of Wolfe's religion imposes on them.<br>
<br>Thus, even in this perspective, they aren't blameless.<br><br>Paul<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 3:47 PM, b sharp <<a href="mailto:bsharporflat@hotmail.com">bsharporflat@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br>
The discussion would become quite interesting if Paul B was a Christian. Are you Paul?<br>
<br>
I really have no quarrel with a person who accepts no entity as a moral superior and who<br>
holds God and angels to the highest standards of his own morality. In the real world.<br>
<br>
But this is fiction. Do Wolfe's intentions matter at all? Paul, if you are arguing that the<br>
Hierogrammates are of questionable morality by your standards I think your point is made,<br>
very, very clearly.<br>
<br>
If you are arguing that the Hierogrammates are of sub-angelic status by Wolfe's standards<br>
I think you need to use a lot more text quotes to support that.<br>
<br>
But either way, answering that simple question would clarify this entire discussion:<br>
<br>
Are you judging the Hierogrammates by your moral standards or Wolfe's?<br>
<br>
-bsharp<br>
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