<div dir="ltr"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 1:52 PM, Thomas Bitterman <<a href="mailto:tom@bitterman.net">tom@bitterman.net</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr"><div class="Ih2E3d">On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 12:30 PM, Paul B <<a href="mailto:pb.stuff@gmail.com" target="_blank">pb.stuff@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="Ih2E3d"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr">In that case, I amend my reply about the justice of the crusades to "It is not a sensible moral response to say that injustice following other injustice is somehow more just". </div></blockquote>
</div><div><br>This puts self-defense in a difficult position. </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br>Of course not, you're being silly. Self-defense is just. The crusades had nothing to do with self-defense.<br>
<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><br> </div><div class="Ih2E3d"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr">Yes, the Muslims were certainly invaders, but does it mean that another, wholly unrelated conqueror is somehow more justified in conquering them in turn? </div>
</blockquote></div><div> <br>Yes. In short, see World War 2. </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br>You persist in silliness. The factions that are considered "just" in that war were not after conquest. <br>
<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>In a little more depth, the Crusades were just another in a long line of wars between countries. There is nothing especially heinous about them that sets them apart from many other wars. The idea that the big bad Christians sucker-punched the peace-loving natives is not based in reality.</div>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br>Now you're making things up and pretending I said them, for which I applaud your imagination. What I did say was that conquest is unjust.<br><br></div></div>
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