<div dir="ltr">No, you misunderstand what I meant by invoking Baldanders, a scientist on a planet without scientists. He _knows_ more than other Urthlings, and can make better guesses than them on a variety of subjects. He "perceives more of the universe". <br>
<br>Any society is comprised of individuals on a continuum of cognitive ability. To let this govern morality is unfair at best, and horrifying at worst.<br>This is why letting the Hierogrammates off simply on the basis of their superior understanding is an abhorrent idea.<br>
<br>Paul <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 4:37 AM, O'Donnell, Tim (BOSI) <<a href="mailto:Tim.O%27Donnell@bankofscotland.ie">Tim.O'Donnell@bankofscotland.ie</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
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<p><font face="Courier New" size="2">Hi Paul,</font>
</p>
<p><font face="Courier New" size="2">The point that I took from this discussion, and I think it is valid, is that the Hieros have the ability to perceive more of</font></p>
<p><font face="Courier New" size="2">the universe than humans; they experience time differently. So when someone talks about knowledge, I take it to refer to this aspect of their</font></p>
<p><font face="Courier New" size="2">knowing and not their ability to produce technology, etc. (which is where the similarity with Baldanders comes in).</font>
</p>
<p><font face="Courier New" size="2">So, while the Hieros are still making guesses on the outcome of their actions (who isn't [apart from God] in a quantum universe?) they do have the </font></p>
<p><font face="Courier New" size="2">advantage of having more knowledge of the outcome of events. And so, their moral code differs from the humans who are bound to A->B linear time. </font></p>
<p><font face="Courier New" size="2">This seems a reasonable argument to me.</font>
</p>
<p><font face="Courier New" size="2">Tim</font>
</p>
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<p><font face="Courier New" size="2">Message: 7</font>
<br><font face="Courier New" size="2">Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 13:17:23 -0400</font>
<br><font face="Courier New" size="2">From: "Paul B" <<a href="mailto:pb.stuff@gmail.com" target="_blank">pb.stuff@gmail.com</a>></font>
<br><font face="Courier New" size="2">Subject: Re: (urth) What's So Great About Ushas</font>
<br><font face="Courier New" size="2">To: "The Urth Mailing List" <<a href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net" target="_blank">urth@lists.urth.net</a>></font>
<br><font face="Courier New" size="2">Message-ID:</font>
<br> <font face="Courier New" size="2"><<a href="mailto:3e1fa2e90807141017o3d51d1f2o5822ad1ba5d40de2@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">3e1fa2e90807141017o3d51d1f2o5822ad1ba5d40de2@mail.gmail.com</a>></font>
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</p>
<p><font face="Courier New" size="2">I see we haven't moved much farther.</font>
</p>
<p><font face="Courier New" size="2">Firstly, I would suggest that you stop calling the Hierogrammates "angels".</font>
<br><font face="Courier New" size="2">They are created by humans (Hieros), and you have yet to provide convincing</font>
<br><font face="Courier New" size="2">evidence of their ties to anything godly. Superior knowledge alone is</font>
<br><font face="Courier New" size="2">certainly no such evidence (see Baldanders).</font>
</p>
<p><font face="Courier New" size="2">Secondly, denying their godliness doesn't make one a "secular humanist". It</font>
<br><font face="Courier New" size="2">makes one a skeptical reader who doesn't add what he pleases to the text.</font>
</p>
<p><font face="Courier New" size="2">Finally, you seem to insist that knowledge and morality are proportional.</font>
<br><font face="Courier New" size="2">God knows all, the Hierogrammates know less, the average Urthlings don't</font>
<br><font face="Courier New" size="2">know very much, and an arctother knows even less than that. This you insist</font>
<br><font face="Courier New" size="2">makes the Urthlings unable to morally judge the Hierogrammates, just as the</font>
<br><font face="Courier New" size="2">arctother can't judge the Urthlings.</font>
</p>
<p><font face="Courier New" size="2">Even the Hierogrammates, however, are still making probabilistic guesses, as</font>
<br><font face="Courier New" size="2">Roy's UotNS quote proves handily. Your system of "morality" thus suggests</font>
<br><font face="Courier New" size="2">that whoever can make the most informed guess in a closed system is the</font>
<br><font face="Courier New" size="2">moral superior and not to be challenged.</font>
</p>
<p><font face="Courier New" size="2">Now again consider Baldanders, likely the most knowledgeable, and</font>
<br><font face="Courier New" size="2">incidentally one of the more immoral, human characters on Urth. I presume</font>
<br><font face="Courier New" size="2">you'll balk at the idea that he's the superior moral agent on all of Urth,</font>
<br><font face="Courier New" size="2">but I'll look forward to your explanation why this isn't the case given the</font>
<br><font face="Courier New" size="2">morality you advocate.</font>
</p>
<p><font face="Courier New" size="2">Paul</font>
</p>
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