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<TITLE>(urth) What's So Great About Ushas</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">Hi Paul,</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">The point that I took from this discussion, and I think it is valid, is that the Hieros have the ability to perceive more of</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">the universe than humans; they experience time differently. So when someone talks about knowledge, I take it to refer to this aspect of their</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">knowing and not their ability to produce technology, etc. (which is where the similarity with Baldanders comes in).</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">So, while the Hieros are still making guesses on the outcome of their actions (who isn't [apart from God] in a quantum universe?) they do have the </FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">advantage of having more knowledge of the outcome of events. And so, their moral code differs from the humans who are bound to A->B linear time. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">This seems a reasonable argument to me.</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">Tim</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">____________________________________________________________________________________________</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">____________________________________________________________________________________________</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">Message: 7</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 13:17:23 -0400</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">From: "Paul B" <pb.stuff@gmail.com></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">Subject: Re: (urth) What's So Great About Ushas</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth@lists.urth.net></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">Message-ID:</FONT>
<BR> <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New"><3e1fa2e90807141017o3d51d1f2o5822ad1ba5d40de2@mail.gmail.com></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">I see we haven't moved much farther.</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">Firstly, I would suggest that you stop calling the Hierogrammates "angels".</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">They are created by humans (Hieros), and you have yet to provide convincing</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">evidence of their ties to anything godly. Superior knowledge alone is</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">certainly no such evidence (see Baldanders).</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">Secondly, denying their godliness doesn't make one a "secular humanist". It</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">makes one a skeptical reader who doesn't add what he pleases to the text.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">Finally, you seem to insist that knowledge and morality are proportional.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">God knows all, the Hierogrammates know less, the average Urthlings don't</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">know very much, and an arctother knows even less than that. This you insist</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">makes the Urthlings unable to morally judge the Hierogrammates, just as the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">arctother can't judge the Urthlings.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">Even the Hierogrammates, however, are still making probabilistic guesses, as</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">Roy's UotNS quote proves handily. Your system of "morality" thus suggests</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">that whoever can make the most informed guess in a closed system is the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">moral superior and not to be challenged.</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">Now again consider Baldanders, likely the most knowledgeable, and</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">incidentally one of the more immoral, human characters on Urth. I presume</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">you'll balk at the idea that he's the superior moral agent on all of Urth,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">but I'll look forward to your explanation why this isn't the case given the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">morality you advocate.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">Paul</FONT>
</P>
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