<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3199" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> urth-bounces@lists.urth.net
[mailto:urth-bounces@lists.urth.net] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Dave
Tallman<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 05, 2008 1:03 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
urth@urth.net<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: (urth) What's So Great About Ushas?
[mx][spf]<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><B><BR></B>thalassocrat wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"><PRE>I've argued at length previously for just that inversion. Was it <BR>
worth killing almost everybody on Urth to restore the Sun, just one <BR>star among many with human-populated worlds?</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>b sharp wrote: <BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"><PRE>For me, it is clear that Wolfe means to depict Urth as populated by a flawed<BR>race of people. For the universes to have a better future, this flawed race needs<BR>to be wiped out, starting over from scratch.</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Both of these moral arguments are missing something, in my view. They are
only concerned with what happens to the human race. Environmentalists call this
anthropocentrism, and they consider it a serious moral flaw. The whole Urth and
its ecosystem was at stake, not just humanity. Typhon's empire started an
interstellar war, and as a side effect the Sun was damaged. The whole Urth would
lose millions of years of life, for countless species and new ones yet to
evolve. Is it a good and just solution for the human race to jet off into space
and leave Urth to freeze? I don't think Wolfe would agree, based on his short
stories like "Beautyland." Shouldn't humanity pay some price to put things
right? (That's an argument that has some application today, too).<BR><BR>What's
so great about Ushas? It might be awesome in the long run. When Sev asked
to find the garden, the Autarch opened a way to the Garden (though he thought
Sev wouldn't be permitted to enter, and he was right). It might be the Edenic
future of humanity in harmony with nature (as the Green Man also
indicated).<BR><BR><SPAN class=269502621-05062008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=269502621-05062008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
agree with what's said above here. I find the "moral inversion"
argument unconvincing for two reasons. First, Urth of the New
Sun has several characters say that the trial isn't fair and that what happens
isn't strictly fair, and that there's no way it could be - it is a matter of
making is as close to fair as possible, with everyone realizing that the coming
of the New Sun won't be just. Even Severian seems to recongize this; he
plays on his own identity as a torturer in the fifth book several times.
Second, I can't help but suspect that if the plot of the books unfolded in such
a way that Severian refused to bring the new sun, because it would involve
wiping out so many people, with the result that the sun died out, another sort
of "moral inversion" argument would be made that Severian was being unjust
to the people who would die as a result of that; I can't help but wonder if
complaints would be registered regardless of what Severian did.
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
-------------------------<br>
Invite the next generation of students to consider Briercrest College and Seminary. Visit www.briercrest.ca/refer. <br>
-------------------------<br>
This e-mail may contain confidential and privileged proprietary material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, or distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, or authorized to receive the information from the recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of this message.<br>
</body>
</html>