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<DIV><SPAN class=113100215-15112007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Comments in blue below.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
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<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> urth-bounces@lists.urth.net
[mailto:urth-bounces@lists.urth.net] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Dan'l
Danehy-Oakes<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 14, 2007 3:50 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
The Urth Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: (urth) Questions about BNS
[text][html][mx][spf]<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Eric,<BR><BR>Welcome. I can't answer all your quesitons, and for
those I can, my<BR>answers may be "debateable." But here goes.<BR><BR>
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<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>1) When Severian enters the shop of Agilus and
Agia, Agilus is wearing a mask that makes him look like a corpse. No
detail in Wolfe is inconsequential: so why is that there? Foreshadowing
of Agilus' fate? </FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>Perhaps, but more generally there's a theme about things that pretend to be
something they aren't pretending to be what they really are: i.e., the
Hierodules, beautiful humanoids who wear masks of hideous things, and wear
beautiful human masks over that; or Jonas, who seems to be a robot masquarading
as a human, but turns out to have a human soul. Etc. <BR><BR>Mind, I might be
reading this through my "Kurt Vonnegut" eyes. <SPAN
class=113100215-15112007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=113100215-15112007></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=113100215-15112007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>That's
a good point; I'm reminded of how Sev sees the black straps to the mask
when he's fighting Agilus with the averns (even though he doesn't realize it is
Agilus at the time). Still, the first sight of the maks leaves Sev so
powerfully affected - he says that it was more frightening than the maks of any
torturer (1/11) - I wonder if it is a reflection of Agilus' personality; I'm
reminded of the ridiculous things he says to Sev the night before his
execution, so much so that Sev just laughs
at him. </FONT> </SPAN><BR></DIV>
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<P><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>2) When Severian and Agia are in the Jungle Garden,
the apparently travel in time and space (the story about Father Inire's
mirrors apparently prepares the reader for this) to a missionary couple in the
jungle. Can someone please explain to me what on earth the native is
talking about on pg. 131? The woman in the couple reads from Deuteronomy
34 - about Moses looking into the promised land but not being able to enter it
- and then the native tells a story about a fish who apparently is a
woman. I'm totally at a loss here; what is the connection? What is
the naked man talking about? How does this contribute to the
story? </FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>I can't answer this one. But I'll use it to suggest that pagination rarely
helps; there are quite a number of one-, two- and four-volume editions of tBotNS
out, so your pagination will almost certainly differ from that of those trying
to answer the questions. better to give chapter numbers and information that
will help locate the text in the chapter -- which, other than the chapter
number, you did fairly well here. <SPAN class=113100215-15112007><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=113100215-15112007></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=113100215-15112007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Noted! Oh, and I was check the archives of the Urth list and
found a great discussion by J. Jordan/Patera Nutria about how both Father
Inire and Isangoma are looking for a fish - and this is probably a symbol for
the church (or something similar to that); after hearing Isangoma's story, Agia
makes reference to the God-man (theos-anthropos), who humbled himself in
becoming human, while Isangoma goes on about his own god, who is proud,
etc. So there's probably an intended contrast there. Moral: Do more
research before you ask!</FONT></SPAN></DIV><SPAN class=113100215-15112007><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=113100215-15112007></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=113100215-15112007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>As I
remember, the husband of the couple is able to see Sev and Agia, but the wife is
not; and the terror of the husband is compared to torture (at one point, Sev
says the man gave a look like clients do before an execrution begins). I
wonder if that is significant thematically . . .</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
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<P><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>3) What about the vision Dorcas and Severian see
when they're leaving Nessus of the huge palace (pg 181)? What is it
of? I vaguely remember that the conversation which Severian has with the
woman who gives him tea at the fair in Saltus might hint that it is somehow
identified with the tent of the Pelerines. Is that on the right track?
</FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>It *is* the tent of the Pelerines. They lit a fire to
burn it down and it went up like a hot-air balloon.<SPAN
class=113100215-15112007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><SPAN class=113100215-15112007></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><SPAN class=113100215-15112007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Oh. Yeah. Duh. I knew that. (Man,
Wolfe can make me feel stupid!)</FONT> </SPAN><BR> <BR></DIV>
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<P><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>4) At the end of Shadow of the Torturer, there's a
disturbance at the huge gate of Nessus; we only learn in Severian's dream in
the next book about the five soldiers turning people aside. Severian
seems so circumspect in describing this that I'm suspicious he knows something
which he isn't telling us. Is this incident in the book
significant? Or is it just that Severian doesn't know why the soldiers
are there? </FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>This incident has been discussed a great deal, to no real
conclusion. One answer that has been suggested is that they are there to <FONT
face=Arial size=2>capture one of several members of the party - particularly Sev
himself (in which case the attack would be under the influence of Abaia or one
of those guys) or maybe Baldanders. Another is that this is simply soldiers
taking advantage of the fact that it's forbidden to use the roads, and the gate
is on a road, so... <SPAN class=113100215-15112007><FONT
color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=113100215-15112007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=113100215-15112007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=113100215-15112007><FONT color=#0000ff>Yeah, I realize this is probably
insoluble. That they're looking for Baldanders makes sense to me.
</FONT></SPAN><BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
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<DIV>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>5) One more and I'll stop - when Severian nearly
drowns in the Gyoll near the beginning of Shadow, he sees a woman's face;
later, during his dream while he's sleeping next to Baldanders, the brides of
Abia hint that they came to see him at the Gyoll - so that's who he
sees. Two questions: who is the woman crying that he hears -
Thecla? Also, when his friends pull him out, he says that he saw the
dead Malrubius - and a boatman asks if Malrubius is a woman. I know this
is really small, but, like I said, no detail is insignificant; why would the
boatman say this? Is there anything here? </FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>I don't know who the woman crying out is. But my claim is
that the boatman is Dorcas's husband, whom Severian next encounters in the
Garden when he nearly drowns.<SPAN class=113100215-15112007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><SPAN class=113100215-15112007></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><SPAN class=113100215-15112007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Wow, great answer. It would make sense that he's
looking for a woman - that he would ask about a woman
underwater.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><SPAN class=113100215-15112007></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><SPAN
class=113100215-15112007> </SPAN><BR><BR></DIV>-- <BR>Dan'l Danehy-Oakes,
writer, trainer, bon vivant<BR>-----<BR><A
href="http://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer">http://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer</A><BR><A
href="http://www.danehyoakes.com">http://www.danehyoakes.com</A><BR>I am
miserable, he is miserable,<BR>We are miserable.<BR>Can't we have a party? Would
he rather have a party?
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