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<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> urth-bounces@lists.urth.net
[mailto:urth-bounces@lists.urth.net] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Adam
Thornton<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 14, 2007 5:10 PM<BR><B>To:</B> The
Urth Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: (urth) Questions about BNS
[text][mx][spf]<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Nov 14, 2007, at 1:26 PM, Eric Ortlund wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>2) When Severian and Agia are in the Jungle Garden,
the apparently travel in time and space (the story about Father Inire's
mirrors apparently prepares the reader for this) to a missionary couple in the
jungle. Can someone please explain to me what on earth the native is
talking about on pg. 131? The woman in the couple reads from Deuteronomy
34 - about Moses looking into the promised land but not being able to enter it
<BR></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>This would be Severian and the Urth of the New Sun, is my reading. In
addition to being a Christ figure he's a Mosaic figure--he brings his world to
salvation but does not himself get to enter the New World.<SPAN
class=350541415-15112007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=350541415-15112007></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=350541415-15112007><SPAN class=350541415-15112007><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>That's a good point - and if there are
religious/theological/otherwise Christian overtones to Isangoma's story with
regard to Christian symbolism around the fish (not to open a can of
worms here about the "Christian" element in BNS, but Nutria's post on this from
'97 on this episode makes a lot of sense to me), then the connection between the
reading from Deuteronomy and Isangoma's counter-story would make
sense.</FONT></SPAN> </SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<P><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2>- and then the native tells a story about a
fish who apparently is a woman. I'm totally at a loss here; what is the
connection? What is the naked man talking about? How does this
contribute to the story? <SPAN class=350541415-15112007><FONT
color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P>Undines? Dunno.</P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>3) What about the vision Dorcas and Severian see
when they're leaving Nessus of the huge palace (pg 181)? What is it
of? I vaguely remember that the conversation which Severian has with the
woman who gives him tea at the fair in Saltus might hint that it is somehow
identified with the tent of the Pelerines. Is that on the right
track?</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>As I recall, the tent of the Pelerines rising like a hot air balloon as it
burns. But I might be misremembering, because that doesn't sound
plausible.</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>4) At the end of Shadow of the Torturer, there's a
disturbance at the huge gate of Nessus; we only learn in Severian's dream in
the next book about the five soldiers turning people aside. Severian
seems so circumspect in describing this that I'm suspicious he knows something
which he isn't telling us. Is this incident in the book
significant? Or is it just that Severian doesn't know why the soldiers
are there?</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>This has been discussed before, but I don't think anyone knows definitively
what's going on. I myself love the idea that Severian thinks he can
impress chicks with impromptu excruciations.<SPAN class=350541415-15112007><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=350541415-15112007></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=350541415-15112007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Babes
always dig guys who can do the Two Apricots whenever the waiter brings the
wrong order on a date. Works for me every
time.</FONT> </SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>5) One more and I'll stop - when Severian nearly
drowns in the Gyoll near the beginning of Shadow, he sees a woman's face;
later, during his dream while he's sleeping next to Baldanders, the brides of
Abia hint that they came to see him at the Gyoll - so that's who he
sees. Two questions: who is the woman crying that he hears -
Thecla? Also, when his friends pull him out, he says that he saw the
dead Malrubius - and a boatman asks if Malrubius is a woman. I know this
is really small, but, like I said, no detail is insignificant; why would the
boatman say this? Is there anything here?</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>The
boatman may have seen an undine. Or maybe not. There's something
there all right. What, though...<BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>Adam</DIV>
-------------------------<br>
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