The old boatman on the Lake of Birds? But how does he hear about Severian's story before Severian meets him? Or is he referring to some other event when he asks about seeing a woman beneath the water?<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">
On 7/19/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Dan'l Danehy-Oakes</b> <<a href="mailto:danldo@gmail.com">danldo@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Yes. The old man is ... I'm forgetting his name, but Dorcas' husband,<br>and Sev's own grandfather, whom he meets again in the Gardens.<br><br>On 7/19/07, Paul B <<a href="mailto:pb.stuff@gmail.com">pb.stuff@gmail.com
</a>> wrote:<br>><br>> Thank you for clearing up the previous one, I'm heartened enough by that to<br>> try my luck again with another question: In Shadow, end of Ch. 2, when<br>> Severian describes his drowning vision, he says he saw Malrubius. However,
<br>> at that point he's questioned by "An old man, a boatman from his tar-stained<br>> clothes" about it, the man asks whether he actually saw a woman. Of course<br>> Severian does see the undine, and hears Thecla, but doesn't answer. The
<br>> puzzling thing is the identity of the man, and how he knows what he does.<br>> Let me know what you think!<br>><br>> My own speculations are thus:<br>> Judging by his familiarity with the situation - he's confident enough to ask
<br>> a clarification of something as ephemeral as a vision, so he must know what<br>> he's talking about - he's familiar with a version of Severian's story told<br>> at another time. However, the odd thing is that Severian doesn't appear in
<br>> any time so close to his starting point. In fact, the closest documented<br>> time preceding his birth is the age of Typhon, when he travels down Gyoll,<br>> isn't it? He does encounter a lot of boatmen then, some of whom become his
<br>> disciples as the Conciliator, but that is so far removed that it seems<br>> unlikely that they preserved that minor a part of his tale.<br>> The first Severian's time traveling is undocumented as best I know, though
<br>> apparently both S1 and S2 are Apu Punchau at some time, and since his tomb<br>> is in the necropolis it's possible that he has in fact visited some time<br>> period much closer to his birth and that's where the story diffuses from.
<br>><br>> However, these are very vague. Even though Severian often bumps into echoes<br>> of himself, they are usually much more defined ones, that's why I'm curious<br>> if there's a better explanation.
<br>><br>> Paul<br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Urth Mailing List<br>> To post, write <a href="mailto:urth@urth.net">urth@urth.net</a><br>> Subscription/information: <a href="http://www.urth.net">
http://www.urth.net</a><br>><br><br><br>--<br>Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant<br>-----<br><a href="http://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer">http://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer</a>
<br><a href="http://www.danehyoakes.com">http://www.danehyoakes.com</a><br>Soon, where Toon Town once stood will be a string of gas stations,<br>inexpensive motels, restaurants that serve rapidly prepared food. Tire<br>salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards
<br>reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful.<br>_______________________________________________<br>Urth Mailing List<br>To post, write <a href="mailto:urth@urth.net">urth@urth.net</a><br>Subscription/information:
<a href="http://www.urth.net">http://www.urth.net</a><br></blockquote></div><br><br>