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At 01:47 AM 6/17/2005, you wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">
------------------------------<br><br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 23:16:40 -0700 (PDT)<br>
From: turin <turin@HELL.COM><br>
Subject: (urth) Re: urth-urth.net Digest, Vol 10, Issue 15<br>
To: urth-urth.net@lists.urth.net<br>
Message-ID: <20050617061640.7437A23E92@sitemail.everyone.net><br>
Content-Type: text/plain<br><br>
/*******************<br>
unless it's titled The Tertiary Roots of <br>
Cyberpunk: The stories that influenced the well-read authors
whoinfluenced <br>
the authors that rode the crest of the Cyberpunk wave.<br>
*******************/<br><br>
That is it exactly. I have no clue about the geneaology of scifi.
</blockquote><br>
Off hand I'd say Wells, Verne and Shelley would be a good start. I think
that's what that class was attempting to do was reveal a similar
parentage for cyberpunk by tracing through a collection of works
(numerous short stories and a few novels). <br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">I wouldn't put Wolfe in a
cyberpunk anthology at all and he is a genuine "literary"
author in the sense that he defies genre, of content not form,
identification. <br>
</blockquote><br>
Absolutely!<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">I was simply wondering
about the "distance" between Wolfe and cyberpunk and note the
thematic similarities between Wolfe's work and the Ghost in the Shell
films in particular. There is an article (one I happen to disagree
with) in technology review entitled Against Transcendance and Bruce
Sterling is quotes as saying that transcendance is what comes with the
territory when writing science fiction.<br>
</blockquote><br>
Oh, I was being facetious on the book title. That was a good quote
worth repeating from
<a href="http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/05/02/issue/editor.asp?p=1" eudora="autourl">
http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/05/02/issue/editor.asp?p=1</a>
:<br><br>
<div align="center">{When the science fiction writer and journalist Bruce
Sterling was asked why so many science fiction novels ended with their
heroes transcending their circumstances, abilities, or bodies, he was
dismissive. “It’s just a riff,” Sterling answered. “The element of
transcendence is just a feature of the SF genre, like feedback in rock
music. People who take that stuff seriously end up turning into
trolls....H. P. Lovecraft was a big fan of that cosmic-type stuff. That
may be okay for him, but from the outside what you see is this
pasty-faced guy eating canned hash in the dim corner of a restaurant,
hands trembly, and a gray film over his eyes.” }<br><br>
</div>
(Though as an aside, I'm not sure Lovecraft really took that cosmic stuff
seriously, as the correspondence of his I've read seemed to treat it
rather playfully.)<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">It -does- seem to be a
convention now, at least in the majority of the most of the important
ones, but maybe I am biased towards transcendance, in fact, I am. I
wonder when, in the literature, Sterling's statement becomes really
applicable, because it seems to me that he is right.</blockquote><br>
As for a literary device, it's a way to show the main character growing
and changing.<br>
One of the (few) stories I recall reading for that class was I Have No
Mouth And I Must Scream by Harlan Ellison. Which was a good introduction
to the idea of transcendence not necessarily being a good thing.<br><br>
For some reason that article reminded me of The Long Sun Series when Dr.
Crane reveals the true state of Loris' bio body. Truly one of the
greatest cyberpunk moments ever. <br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">also I'd very much like to hear
what you think cyberpunk is </blockquote><br>
How science and technology twists society and individuals and how
individuals seize them to twist back. <br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">and as I said its geneaology
besides Snyder..... or merely what was said in the class.I don't know if
anyone has written anything about the evolution of scifi in a taxonomical
way.... I wonder what it would look like considering the volume of
material and how recent the most interesting and important were
written. Teaching a class on cyberpunk sounds very interesting
though very specialized.<br><br>
EOT;<br>
</blockquote><br>
IIRC, the cyberpunk class was actually a spinoff of a groundbreaking
class from the previous semester that was taught by two instructors from
two different departments. It dealt with science in science fiction, but
also focused on cyberpunk and computer technology which inspired the
cyberpunk class. <br><br>
Alas, such a vast amount of water has passed beneath that bridge that it
has long since washed away. I don't really recall many details from the
classes other than there was a lot of reading, some heated classroom
discussions and that we spent a lot of time trying to deconstruct the
mass media pop culture hype that was already suffocating the genre. Both
were great classes.<br><br>
Dan<br><br>
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