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<DIV>In a message dated 3/22/2005 2:02:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
urth-urth.net-request@lists.urth.net writes:</DIV>
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style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>1]
I suspect, if they're there, Herbet either is commenting on them in a
<BR>negative way, or they're space opera tropes that have snuck in without
<BR>anyone noticing, which can happen if no one's
careful.<BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>>>My first post.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Herbert's initial impulse in writing Dune was to write a criticism of
Messiah figures, from Jesus to JFK, showing that one SHOULDN'T follow
them. Illustrating their actions, in the case of Dune, isn't the same as
condoning those actions.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I feel the same way about Watchmen; I found it an illustration of the
fascist underpinnings of the ubermensch supposedly serving the masses while in
fact being above them (sort of like in a socialist country). </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The only fascistic works I've seen in fantasy/sf, short of The Turner
Diaries, have been unconscious ones, or at least unacknowledged ones.
There are many of these in post-Tolkien fantasy fiction. The tendency of
these power fantasies to be so popular with supposedly liberal-minded fantasy
fans is something I've always found curious.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I do think Wolfe's books have a touch of this but I think Wolfe is more
interested in exploring a tradition that stretches back so far that one can't do
so without including much of this material. I've never found the impulse
toward glorifying "superior people" that I've seen in much fantasy
fiction.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>