(urth) George R. R. Martin on Gene Wolfe

[Sergei SOLOVIEV]

A remark: it seems to me that Wolfe is trying to be historically 
accurate (in his historical novels, like Latro's cycle),
and respect the "spirit" of the societies he imagines and describes in 
his SF and Fantasy. This may go absolutely against
the "liberal arts programs" that often sacrifice "historically true" for 
"politically correct".

Sergei Soloviev

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:
> Fair enough, Marc, but ... I honestly think there *is* a problem with 
> Wolfe's female characters. The only one I can think of who actively 
> engaged me _as a person_ (rather than as a foil for the [male] 
> protagonist) was ... and I'm going to blank on her name ... in _The 
> Land Across_. You know, her.
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 9:19 AM, Marc Aramini <marcaramini at gmail.com 
> <mailto:marcaramini at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     One more thing I wanted to briefly reiterate, which I have said in
>     part in my videos, but I DO think some of the criticism aimed at
>     Wolfe is ideological in nature. When I think of an author
>     objectifying women, I think of Henry Miller calling all of them
>     c#$ts and interested in them purely for fleeting sexuality,of the
>     same interest as a quarter on the floor (slightly more interesting
>     because he will pick up the quarter AFTER he is done with the
>     girl) ... but because of his bohemian, against "the man",
>     anti-restraint image, the discussion of his work rarely involves
>     the rampant denigration Wolfe's female characters get. For
>     whatever reason, the sophisticated readers who gravitate towards
>     liberal arts programs tend to be of a different political bent
>     than someone who is more or less a traditionalist, albeit an
>     extremely eccentric genius of one.
>
>     There is an ideological bias in terms of public reception, most
>     certainly - though as far as a Hugo goes, as you said, Wolfe's
>     difficulty is reason enough, I think.
>
>     On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 8:30 AM, Nick Lee
>     <starwaterstrain at gmail.com <mailto:starwaterstrain at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         http://grrm.livejournal.com/424135.html
>
>         Martin had a few kind words to say about Wolfe and the New
>         Yorker piece. He also brought up the Hugos and the Puppies
>         again. There's some irony in that, isn't there? The Puppies,
>         both breeds, argue that conservative, religious authors don't
>         have a chance with the Hugos because they've been "taken over"
>         by a left-leaning, atheist conspiracy.
>
>         They never bring up Wolfe, from what I've seen, and you would
>         think he's the perfect example. He's obviously Catholic and
>         conservative, to a degree. See arguments about this in the
>         past of the List and recently on Reddit. He's never won a Hugo
>         despite numerous other accolades. You would think he'd be
>         their most damning evidence. So what gives?
>
>         I could make a snide comment here about how the Puppies
>         probably couldn't understand Wolfe anyway, but despite the
>         snark I think there's some truth in the idea. A corollary to
>         the Puppy argument is that more traditional SF, adventure
>         stories essentially, are not winning awards anymore. On one
>         hand, Wolfe does write stories with adventure: knights,
>         wizards, secret agents, etc. He's also been writing for a long
>         time. He doesn't write simple stories, though, and while he
>         pays frequent homage to the classics of the genre does not
>         write in their style.
>
>         And what about those accolades? Wolfe has won numerous other
>         awards; he's a Grand Master; other writers laud him
>         frequently. In an interview from some time back, China
>         Miéville noted Wolfe's talent while acknowledging a difference
>         in political opinion.
>
>         The reason Wolfe has never won a Hugo has nothing to do with
>         his ideology and everything to do with the fact that he's a
>         difficult writer. The fans vote for the Hugos, and they vote
>         for what they're reading, most of which is more traditional
>         and less literary than Wolfe's output.
>
>         Wolfe is an embarrassing example for the Puppies because he
>         doesn't fit into their narrative. I don't think he would play
>         ball with them either because as Martin notes, he's "a class
>         act." 
>
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> -- 
> Dan'l Danehy-Oakes
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