(urth) Tzadkiel's form

[Marc Aramini]

Okay, all I was implying was that the undines are known as the brides of
Abaia.  This scene is where Sev is rescued by the undine Juturna, who casts
him up, and he sees the statue of Night when he comes back to
consciousness.  Later, in the story of the Student and His Son, the woman
who helps the son is a daughter of Night working against her father, and
the naviscaput seems to be like the giant thing issuing orders at the end
of Citadel of the autarch - probably Abaia.
Undines are associated with Night in that first scene through Juturna's
interference.  Whether she is actually related to the Lilith like Jahi in
Eschatology and Genesis is less clear.

After Sev awakens something in the mine at Saltus, he speculates that he
knows why Abaia has tried to enlist him in this battle, or something to
that effect.  That thing under the mine might very well be one of these
Abaia/Erebus/Arioch creatures stirred to wakefulness. The toothy
description of the cave formation really does match Baldander's dream
pretty well. I agree there is very little distinction between all these
guys as they appear in the text.

Spring Wind being half plant caught me a bit off guard - I obviously hadn't
read that since I devised the man-tree hybrid scheme of Short Sun.
Definitely those embedded stories would have told us the real plot and its
denouement in a world in which Urth of the New Sun was never written, but
they are still somewhat opaque in their syncretic blending of stories of
Mowgli, Moses, myth, and more.  What is the Red Flower, the rose without
thorns, which gives birth to Spring Wind?  Severian's Claw of the
Conciliator probably winds up being the thorn of a flower dipped in his
blood.

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 7:02 AM, Lee <severiansola at hotmail.com> wrote:

> >Marc Aramini: There is a statue of Nox/night in the second chapter of
> Book of the New Sun
> >after Juturna casts him out, linking that scene directly with Abaia.
>
>
> I'm not fully understanding you Marc. After the scene where Severian is
> rescued by an undine,
>
> a "statue of Night atop the khan (inn) on the opposite bank (of Gyoll)" is
> mentioned. Are you
>
> saying this statue is sufficient to dismiss mythology and connect "Night"
> to Abaia, rather than
>
> Erebus?
>
>
> Abaia and the undine are clearly aquatic creatures but the suggestion is
> that Erebus is associated
>
> with an Antarctic mountain. For me, a statue atop an inn on the bank of a
> river is more evocative
>
> of a mountain than water.
>
>
> Moreover, of all the possible megatherians, Abaia is mentioned the most,
> but Erebus is a close
>
> second. The other candidates (Scylla, Arioch, Ouroboros, Jurpari) are
> generally mentioned only
>
> once. Given this, I would expect Erebus to make some sort of appearance in
> the story, somewhere.
>
> Otherwise, why would Wolfe mention this particular name so many times?
>
>
> I'll note that there is an old boatman in the Severian drowning scene who
> asks about a woman in
>
> the river, though Severian (perhaps pretends to) misunderstand him.
>
>
> Much later in the story, there is another old boatman who tells the story
> of a giant ship carrying
>
> gigantic, notably pale-skinned warriors. There are women's voices coming
> up from the water and
>
> a deeper male voice also.  For me, the pale-skin and giant size  are
> hinting at an Antarctic mountain
>
>  origin for these warriors. Perhaps what lies below the water represents
> Abaia and undines while the
>
> ship and warriors above water represent Erebus.
>
>
> Definitely ambiguous and intended to be. But I continue to think the
> distinction between Erebus
>
> and Abaia  is not as great as the distinction between one human being and
> another (similar
>
> connection between the gigantic Mother on Blue and Great Scylla on Urth).
>
>
> For Tzadkiel, we have animal versions, human versions, angel versions,
> male versions, female versions,
>
> tiny versions and cosmic-sized versions. Might this not be a clue that
> there are Urthly creatures who
>
> come in gigantic oceanic versions, smaller lake and river versions,
> land/mountain versions, cave versions,
>
> human sized versions and animal versions?
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