(urth) Tzadkiel's form

[Lee]

>Daniel Otto Jack Petersen: That's a kind of beautiful theory, Lee


Thanks, DOJP. Ship's sails as angel wings does work rather poetically. Credit to

Wolfe for that.  I am wondering if this theme of large beings being mistaken 

(or conflated) with ships might be related to the theme of large, fish-monster 

mouths being mistaken for caves.


>james ford: I was always under the assumption that the tale of the naviscaput was

>about Abaia.


Yes, I think Severian himself muses on that. But here is an interesting consideration:


The daughter of the Naviscaput, Noctua, reports that her father had taken her mother,

"Night" by force. In Greek mythology, Night or Nyx  is mated with her primeval god-

brother Erebus.


So maybe the Naviscaput is Erebus instead of Abaia? Given the odd ways these giant

creatures can reproduce themselves I'm not sure there is quite the distinction between

their identities as there would be for sexually produced, born creatures such as ourselves.


Also of interest (to me, anyway), one of the mythological offspring of Erebus and Nyx is

the boatman of the dead, Charon. I think he makes an appearance in BotNS.


>The implication of Tzadkiel and the beasts on Urth sharing a common
>origin is great and well worth looking into. Why would these monsters, as
>possible offshoots of the Hierogrammates, work against the coming of the
>New Sun? What caused the schism? Or is it really as simple as the monsters
>being "fallen" versions of Tzadkiel?


For me, it is a general principle for the whole Sun Series that when Wolfe has left gaps

in the story regarding mythologically named beings, that the gaps can often be filled by 

turning to mythology (or religion, as it were).


So in trying to understand the opposition of the megatherians to the New Sun I think a

good starting point is to understand why Lucifer and the fallen angels mutinied and 

opposed God (and Jesus) and left heaven and fell to earth.


I used that word because a "mutiny" is the primary storyline we see play out while

Severian is on Tzadkiel's Ship. Perhaps we cannot understand Ship politics any more

than we can understand heavenly politics in the Bible.  We may have to just shrug and

say pride, power and control are the issues and these guys decided they would rather

reign on Urth than serve in heaven (metaphor- Ship).


We are shown one of the mutineers (jibers) resembling Hethor. Given that the "old sailor" 

 Hethor, in his urthly ramblings, seems to say that he HAD been a mutineer on his vessel, 

I think we can safely conclude that Severian does see Hethor on the Ship but a younger 

version of him, from before they encounter each other on Urth.


Given Hethor's mastery of mirrors and monsters, I don't find it a stretch that he is 

associated with the fallen angels/demons who reside on Urth. My guess is that, in parallel

to the Biblical story,  all of the monsters fallen to  Urth originated as mutineers from Tzadkiel's 

Ship. By name alone, this would include Typhon.