(urth) You have the wrong creation you ninny - eschatology and genesis

[Marc Aramini]

Well.. I guess my big problem with it is the idea of no Christ in a
previous iteration, because that is something that we see more clearly in
The Wizard Knight - knightly medieval virtues (ie- boasting and bullying)
stripped of Christianity.

The religion of Silk is Catholicism with paganism written over it, the
cross "voided" (an inversion of pagan holidays being "appropriated" by
Christianity), quotes from Marcus Aurelius in the Chrasmological Writings
and all.  The Saints names, the scriptural echoes ... eucharists everywhere
... seems the solar cycle is Catholic or Orthodox Christian in a way Wizard
Knight never was.  The cross can't be voided if there was never anything on
it - why does it exist as a symbol at all if it has not been effaced by
time and the desire for worship which Typhon's amalgamation brings?  Typhon
steals the Catholic religion and then winds up making something sublime in
Silk. Self aggrandizement cannot kill the spirit (and I still think the
male and female voices in Silk's ears is a pre-recorded message from his
parents, Pas and Kypris)

On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 9:04 AM, Lee <severiansola at hotmail.com> wrote:

> >Gerry Quinn: The Yesodi are mentioned here. They were responsible
>
> >for the creation or modication of the Hierodules, who in turn
>
> >created aquastors such as Malrubius:
>
>
> This is tautology. You are saying beings from another universe were
>
> mentioned when beings from another universe were mentioned.
>
>
> It is a diversion from the topic of the this thread which is whether
>
> Urth is a future version of planet Earth or whether Urth is a previous
>
> universal iteration of Earth.
>
>
> The James Jordan-Gene Wolfe quotes which inspired this thread are:
>
>
> >JJ: This universe that you set in Briah, or part of it--is that our
> universe?
>
>
>
> >GW: No. I thought of it as a long past universe. Something that we are
> repeating
>
> >rather than something that we are....
>
>
> >...GW: Yes, I was looking at what past universes might have been like
> really and
>
> >that is how...I began with the idea of what is going to happen to us if
> we just
>
> >keep going the way we are going and continue to live on the continent of
> Earth
>
> >without ever really going into the sea or going into space and we just
> wait for
>
> >the money to run out. The do nothing future and thinking about what that
> would be.
>
> >And then I got into the idea of universal cycles. And decided that I
> would show
>
> >that this might be a past cycle.
>
>
> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2tmhh/wolfejbj.html#urth
>
>
> To me this is an explicit, detailed and unequivocal statement by Wolfe
> that he
>
> intended Briah and Urth to be seen as a previous universe, not our own
> universe
>
> nor our own Earth.
>
>
> Marc has suggested this was a casual, self-ret-con of Wolfe own work to
> pander to
>
> Protestant sensibilities and to post facto justify the occurrence of a
> second Flood
>
> on Earth in violation of the Covenant.
>
>
> With due respect to Marc, I find this to be an unbelievable explanation of
> such
>
> specific and detailed words from Mr. Wolfe . I actually think it would
> make more sense
>
> to suggest that James Jordan deliberately misquoted Wolfe to uphold
> Protestant dogma.
>
> And with due respect to James, I do not think that is at all the case. I
> respect
>
> both Gene Wolfe and James Jordan and I feel their words were reported
> faithfully and
>
> honestly in this interview.
>
>
> I might find the accusation of ret-conning slightly plausible if there
> were no textual
>
> hints to support Gene Wolfe's contention that he intended Urth to be a
> previous
>
> iteration of Earth. If there were no mention of multiple universes or
> hints that Urth
>
> is "of the past". But there are. Both the interview and text support the
> theory that
>
> Urth is not Earth.
>
>
> Marc is not the only highly intelligent, well-versed Wolfe fan who adheres
> to the
>
> "Urth is Earth" theory. And Wolfe himself seems to give latitude for each
> reader to
>
> interpret some parts of his work as they see them, not necessarily as
> Wolfe intended
>
> them.
>
>
> But if Wolfe's intentions matter, then, given the words of the interview
> and the
>
> textual hints, I find it more likely that the "Urth is Earth" theory is a
> case of
>
> readers clinging to their initial, cherished impression rather than "urth
> is not Earth"
>
> being an incidence of Wolfe auctorial retrofitting.
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