(urth) resurrecting a 2002 thread that posits an alternative lineage for Sev

Marc Aramini marcaramini at gmail.com
Thu Oct 2 07:52:48 PDT 2014


Yes, I am quite sure Wolfe subscribes to the whole "one in being with the
Father" creed - Christ is fully human and fully divine (a similar paradox
to the whole three in one, one in three theological parsing - we aren't
dealing with Arianism or Gnosticism in Wolfe ... oh wait, maybe sometimes
we are ...)

On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 7:39 AM, Matthew Weber <palaeologos at gmail.com> wrote:

> Through faith in what, Himself?
>
> Christ is a hypostasis of divinity and humanity.  It's correct to say that
> his power is not magical (i.e. granted him by some other, more powerful
> agency).  It is no more magical than my power to use my arm to lift a cup
> of coffee to my mouth so I can drink it.  My power to do so is inherent, as
> is Christ's to perform signs.
>
> Insofar as Wolfe is an orthodox RC, it can be assumed that this is what he
> believes as well.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 7:14 AM, António Marques <entonio at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> And Christ performed miracles through faith, not by the use of some
>> magical power belonging to himself.
>>
>> On 2 October 2014 15:04, Brad Henry <bradhenry101 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> And part of catholic teaching is that saints are not simply 'controlled
>>> by christ' in their working of miracles (many saints have performed
>>> miracles like severian') but they are in the process of 'theosis' (or,
>>> sometimes called 'divination'), being made into gods, that culminates in
>>> their resurrection to immortality. It is a christian quip: "God became man,
>>> so that man might become (a) god." The traditional biblical cite for this
>>> is 2 Peter 1.3-4.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 9:47 AM, Marc Aramini <marcaramini at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is obvious, but for me the miracles make him pretty explicitly a
>>>> Judeo-Christian wonderworker/savior with a little sin and torture thrown in
>>>> for good measure (bleeding from the forehead when he sees the many
>>>> eye-winged butterfly, turning water to wine, resurrecting the dead,
>>>> healing, carrying a huge cross shaped torture device which is occasionally
>>>> planted in the ground, being tempted by Satan almost verbatim (but never,
>>>> say, transforming into an animal like a Pagan god)) - my earliest
>>>> impression when I was a young boy was not that he was a normal person but a
>>>> Christ.  The pagan gods are the unnatural creatures in New Sun whose
>>>> mythologies are incorporated and transformed into Christian stories [such
>>>> as the flood and the story of Genesis]. (At least throughout The Book of
>>>> the New Sun).
>>>>
>>>> I never fancied Sev ordinary. While clearly Wolfe loves playing with
>>>> mythical creatures, the importance of his Catholicism to his works
>>>> shouldn't be understated.
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, October 2, 2014, Lee <severiansola at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> >On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 7:35 AM, David Stockhoff <
>>>>> dstockhoff at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Severian is a (pagan) god. He has a presentiment of it at the
>>>>> beginning of his story but by the end
>>>>>
>>>>> of Citadel, we are meant to understand that he was The Conciliator and
>>>>> he will be The New Sun.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> By the end of Urth of the New Sun we also understand that in addition
>>>>> to his superhuman healing
>>>>>
>>>>> powers, he was also worshipped as Apu Punchau, he can breathe
>>>>> underwater, he can travel through time
>>>>>
>>>>>  he is immortal (though not invulnerable), and at the very end he once
>>>>> again finds himself worshipped as
>>>>>
>>>>> a god.
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Matt +
>
> For all that nature by her mother wit
> Could frame in earth.
>     Edmund Spenser (1552-1599), *The Faerie Queene [1590], bk. IV [1596],
> canto 10, st. 21*
>
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