(urth) barrington interview

[António Pedro Marques]

The point is that no one knows how the crow does his math. The crow may look at it in a way similar to our addition and subtraction, or in a different enough way. Again, what we're questioning is not the universal applicability of our math, rather its universality as a computing tool. 

No dia 08/10/2014, às 16:07, "Norwood, Frederick Hudson" <NORWOODR at mail.etsu.edu> escreveu:

> Actually, crows can do simple math.  If four hunters enter a house and three come out, the crow can do enough math to avoid the house.  Four hunters in, four come out, the crow flies to the house.  Twenty hunters in, nineteen out, the crow flies to the house.  The crow can see the difference between three and four but not between nineteen and twenty.
> 
> I do not believe there is an alien race for which four (the concept, not the symbol) is less than three.  
> 
> For a good science fiction story on this subject, read "Omnilingual" by H. Beam Piper.
> 
> Rick Norwood  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Urth [mailto:urth-bounces at lists.urth.net] On Behalf Of Lee
> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 10:57 AM
> To: urth at urth.net
> Subject: (urth) barrington interview
> 
>> Thomas Bitterman: Is there an argument against the universality of mathematics
> 
>> that isn't  just the Genetic Fallacy?
> 
> 
> By Genetic Fallacy I assume you mean this:
> 
>> The genetic fallacy, also known as fallacy of origins, fallacy of virtue,[1]
> 
>> Is a fallacy of irrelevance where a conclusion is suggested based solely on
> 
>> something or someone's origin rather than its current meaning or context
> 
> 
> My objection to the assumption that math is universally applicable is because
> 
> math originates from the mind of one species on one planet in a very small
> 
> corner of one galaxy in a universe of a (perhaps) infinite number of galaxies.
> 
> 
> As I understand it, the Genetic Fallacy would apply if math had been found outside
> 
> that original context. For example, if we found math being used by members of 
> 
> another species from outside our solar system or galaxy. Or if we had travelled
> 
> to all corners of the universe and found math applicable everywhere, not just
> 
> from the perspective of planet earth.
> 
> 
> But currently (as far as I know) math is used only by that one species on that
> 
> one planet.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't claim it is impossible for math to be universal. I would only say that it  
> 
> seems unlikely to me. The fact that everything we encounter can be described 
> 
> mathematically seems most likely due to human limitations on what we are able 
> 
> to encounter.  
> 
> 
> In other words, we simply can't see what we can't see.  The assumption of a cosmic 
> 
> universality to our mammalian-evolved perceptions and thoughts seems unfounded
> 
> to me.
> 
> 
> Of course, if we are talking Special Creation and math as a special mastery for 
> 
> understanding the universe, as bestowed upon us by God, then that's a different story.                         
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