(urth) 5HC

[Marc Aramini]

I am positing that "they" in the ace paperback shifted mid sentence. Now
we  have to guess whether an editor who didn't get it or Gene changed it.


On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 6:29 AM, Marc Aramini <marcaramini at gmail.com> wrote:

> The editor who changed "then I walked into the room" to "then Horn walked
> into the room" did it without Wolfe's knowledge and he is mad about it.
>
> I really think an editor changed that - scrofulous, unfortunate, lame,
> terrible, anger burning in my veins.
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 6:27 AM, Marc Aramini <marcaramini at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> son of a gun what version of the text do you have?!!!! In the ACE
>> paperback it says
>> "When he came close to them they extended hands, open, and smiled; but
>> THEY did not understand open hands meant (or had meant, once) that they
>> held no weapons."
>>
>> I am so super pissed at copy editors right now. Mine is the version with
>> Many Pink Butterflies instead of Mary Pink Butterflies as well.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 4:11 AM, Gerry Quinn <gerry at bindweed.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 26/08/2014 14:52, Marc Aramini wrote:
>>>
>>>> No lee, I think he was a shadow child, which is very different than an
>>>> abo.  I think Abos and shadow children have completely different life
>>>> cycles.  Thus he is persecuted. Everyone else is an abo, however, and the
>>>> switch happened as soon as they landed on ste Anne at the same time
>>>> Sandwalker and eastwind were switched (Trenchard later says his ancestor is
>>>> the east wind who met the Landers) when all of a "they" can't recognize
>>>> what open hands mean.  (Or is that a universal signal everywhere but in
>>>> France? nope).  Abos go from larva to adult imitative form to immobile
>>>> carapace (the trees at the brothel disappear during certain seasons - we
>>>> assume they have been uprooted) and the shadow children are many who become
>>>> one - a group consciousness formed by a colony of cells (as all living
>>>> things are, save that this one promulgates through infection). They took
>>>> over ste croix about 140 years ago and Marsch asks why all the buildings
>>>> are so ridiculously old - Abos don't build new things, they just imitate
>>>> things already in place.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Marc, I think I only realised this morning where you get the 'open
>>> hands' idea from.  The text says:
>>>
>>> "When he [Sandwalker] came close to them [the just-landed French] they
>>> extended their hands, open, and smiled; but he did not understand that open
>>> hands meant (or had meant, once) that they held no weapons.  His people had
>>> never known weapons."
>>>
>>> You seem to often read things hyper-literally and leap to hypotheses
>>> that seem, frankly, pretty wild to me.  For example, in the above, you are
>>> proposing some sort of instant wiping of the memory of the French landers,
>>> unprecedented and unheralded anywhere else in the story - and not even
>>> consistent with either imitation and parasite infection, which already
>>> constitute one mechanism of substitution too many.
>>>
>>> Here is the non-hyper-literal interpretation.  The French hold out open
>>> hands and smile to indicate they are friendly.  Open hands are a
>>> traditional gesture meaning "I hold no weapons".  Sandwalker doesn't
>>> understand it because his people don't use weapons.
>>>
>>> What of the parenthesised "(or had meant, once)"?  Simply this: in the
>>> twenty-ninth century, or whatever, we may assume that weapons exist that
>>> don't need to be held in the hands.  Automated gun turrets that can be
>>> activated with a thought, perhaps - very likely such devices are being
>>> tested right now in 2014.  So the open hands gesture can't be taken
>>> literally any more.  It's just a minor digression by Wolfe.  Not a secret
>>> clue that disintegrates the remainder of the text by showing that the minds
>>> of the French are wiped instantly for some reason.
>>>
>>> This is far from the only such example.  Do the trees at Saltimbanque
>>> Street walk away at certain seasons?  I'm not even going to look.  But if
>>> they do, I'm going to assume it's simply the work of Maitre's gardener,
>>> unless substantially more is said about the matter!
>>>
>>> As for the old buildings, both you and Lee have noted this.  But
>>> Port-Mimizon is an urban area that has suffered a reduction in population.
>>> Marsch notes that Frenchman's Landing is newly-built, though its
>>> architecture does not impress him.  Sainte Anne has recently installed
>>> weather control satellites, and is replacing its shipping technology with
>>> "modern sail-propelled vessels" similar to those on Earth.  They've got
>>> tech.  [If Sainte Croix is all abo, Sainte Anne must obviously be too.]
>>>
>>> I've said it before, Wolfe is not trying to trick or trap readers. He's
>>> not writing a load of nonsense and hiding the clues to the real story in
>>> isolated words or phrases or names.  If he wants to tell us something, he
>>> will tell it.  Look at Long Sun, he didn't do the cheap trick that would
>>> appeal to some authors of making the inhabitants of the Whorl literally
>>> unaware they are in a spaceship. Their unawareness is naturalistic - they
>>> just don't *think* about it.  He doesn't write planets of completely
>>> delusional lunatics.  He writes madmen, but they will usually stop mumbling
>>> when spoken to, and their delusions are similar to those of actual madmen.
>>> They do not think the sky is orange, for example, or if they do at least
>>> they will have tried to come up with some explanation for why it looks blue!
>>>
>>> - Gerry Quinn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>
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