(urth) Silk/Horn in the Matachin Tower
Jeff Wilson
jwilson at clueland.com
Thu Feb 7 14:07:36 PST 2013
It's possible the alzabo was made for some nefarious plot by a human
culture previous to the advent of Inire, but the creation of anpiels and
mastiffmen, etc, are attributed to Inire, and Inire's purposes are served
by the alzabo. And it's not like the human culture would be beyond the
influence of the Yesodis, even then.
And while the alzabo has no "mind" of its own, it was present at
Severian's trial. Which is interesting, since it had two victims active
when he knew it.
On Thu, February 7, 2013 10:57, David Stockhoff wrote:
> Why "almost certainly"? Don't tell me you doubt evolution!
>
> On 2/7/2013 11:48 AM, Jeff Wilson wrote:
>> The assimilation of devoured prey memories is almost certainly a product
>> of genetic engineering by the Yesodis, if not Father Inire himself, to
>> use
>> the analept to produce a truly enlightened despot.
>>
>> On Thu, February 7, 2013 09:57, Antonin Scriabin wrote:
>>> Ah, ok. The speech isn't true speech, just animal imitation, in a way.
>>> Perhaps a highly evolved form of mimicry design to lure prey?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:54 AM, David Stockhoff
>>> <dstockhoff at verizon.net>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Definitely. But the alzabo remains a beast, which is the important
>>>> difference, I think. The voice within it speaks, but it is not the
>>>> voice
>>>> of
>>>> the alzabo, which has no awareness. It's less than a biological
>>>> puppet---far from a full possession or animation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/7/2013 10:42 AM, Antonin Scriabin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "in that they actually create themselves---their conscious
>>>>> selves---with
>>>>> the act of drinking"
>>>>>
>>>>> The other thing is that Jahlee says without drinking the blood, the
>>>>> inhumi would remain beasts as well. The alzabo and inhumi seem very
>>>>> similar in this regard as well.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:36 AM, David Stockhoff
>>>>> <dstockhoff at verizon.net<mailto:
>>>>> dstockhoff at verizon.net**>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> In the absence of any concrete answer, I'd lean toward
>>>>> "recurring
>>>>> notion." But it's one that's grounded in Wolfe's obsessions:
>>>>> identity, speech-as-identity, spirit/soul/thought (or
>>>>> memory-as-identity) vs matter/flesh/reality, and morality of
>>>>> action regardless of moral starting point. The alzabo is a beast
>>>>> even when it speaks, however, so the inhumi are a more developed
>>>>> idea, in that they actually create themselves---their conscious
>>>>> selves---with the act of drinking (drinking and eating being
>>>>> separate acts of the sacrament).
>>>>>
>>>>> With Jahlee, there may be a rough parallel to the virgin birth
>>>>> as
>>>>> well, if you take Krait (the mind of Krait, not the mutable body
>>>>> that holds Krait) as having been born of Jahlee's drinking of
>>>>> Sinew's blood rather than whatever conjugation created his body.
>>>>> This suggests the Trinity of course---the ultimate "ghost"
>>>>> story,
>>>>> with all its implications.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/6/2013 10:43 PM, Antonin Scriabin wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Another idea popped into my head, albeit on a different
>>>>> topic:
>>>>>
>>>>> Jahlee says, right before her death, "We take their minds
>>>>> from
>>>>> your blood. Their minds are yours. Here, long ago, I drank
>>>>> the
>>>>> blood of your small son. Krait was my son, the only one who
>>>>> lived with the mind it took from yours."
>>>>>
>>>>> This strikes me as very similar to the alzabo Severian
>>>>> encounters, that eats the family he stays with. The father,
>>>>> I
>>>>> believe, is eaten first, and his mind "bubbles up" in the
>>>>> alzabo and speaks to the family when it breaks into their
>>>>> home. There are few shared dynamics in these scenes. For
>>>>> example, apart from the implication that the minds of the
>>>>> human characters are contained in their blood / flesh, there
>>>>> is an eerie, "unnatural" connection between one son (Krait
>>>>> via
>>>>> Jahlee) and his father (Horn) in the one case, and another
>>>>> son
>>>>> (little Severian) and his father (surfaced in the demeanor
>>>>> of
>>>>> the alzabo, addressing him) in the other. Thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>> There is also the eating of Thecla's flesh and the transfer
>>>>> of
>>>>> "mind" (powered by alzabo glands) ... the sacramental
>>>>> mechanics are pretty clear. Is there any meaningful
>>>>> connection between alzabo and inhumu, or is this "blood /
>>>>> flesh as mind" just a recurring notion in the two series,
>>>>> one
>>>>> that Wolfe is particularly fond of?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Marc Aramini
>>>>> <marcaramini at yahoo.com <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com>
>>>>> <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com
>>>>> <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com>**>>
>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On *Wed, 2/6/13, DAVID STOCKHOFF
>>>>> /<dstockhoff at verizon.net <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net**>
>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net**>>>/* wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: DAVID STOCKHOFF <dstockhoff at verizon.net
>>>>> <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net**>
>>>>> <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net**>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: (urth) Silk/Horn in the Matachin Tower
>>>>> To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net
>>>>> <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net>
>>>>> <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net
>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Date: Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 10:12 AM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You're always a few steps ahead, Mark. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there a consensus that it's Typhon's mausoleum?
>>>>> Does this
>>>>> suggest Severian "looks like" Typhon? Or someone
>>>>> else?
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, do you think the stiff-legged "bird-like"
>>>>> person
>>>>> you
>>>>> mentioned is actually tree-related, and that's why
>>>>> he's
>>>>> stiff-legged ? (not really birdlike at all, in other
>>>>> words)
>>>>>
>>>>> No consensus on the mausoleum and if it is the infamous
>>>>> one
>>>>> of
>>>>> which Severian claims, "I have seen my tomb and now go
>>>>> to
>>>>> lie in
>>>>> it" or something to that effect, but that would
>>>>> certainly
>>>>> establish a very strange genetic relationship between
>>>>> Typhon and
>>>>> Severian that I had previously only been able to firmly
>>>>> ascribe
>>>>> only to Silk, as Typhon's probable "heir".
>>>>> As far as the stiff-legged thing in the "colorless
>>>>> cloak"
>>>>> on the
>>>>> high ground on Green, I think that is probably an echo
>>>>> of
>>>>> maimed
>>>>> Severian on his high island, now that the waters have
>>>>> receded, or
>>>>> at least some eidolon of Sev, effectively immortal.
>>>>> Unless it is
>>>>> just a Vanished Person ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
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--
Jeff Wilson - < jwilson at clueland.com >
A&M Texarkana Computational Intelligence Lab
< http://www.tamut.edu/cil >
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