(urth) Silk/Horn in the Matachin Tower
David Stockhoff
dstockhoff at verizon.net
Thu Feb 7 08:57:27 PST 2013
Why "almost certainly"? Don't tell me you doubt evolution!
On 2/7/2013 11:48 AM, Jeff Wilson wrote:
> The assimilation of devoured prey memories is almost certainly a product
> of genetic engineering by the Yesodis, if not Father Inire himself, to use
> the analept to produce a truly enlightened despot.
>
> On Thu, February 7, 2013 09:57, Antonin Scriabin wrote:
>> Ah, ok. The speech isn't true speech, just animal imitation, in a way.
>> Perhaps a highly evolved form of mimicry design to lure prey?
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:54 AM, David Stockhoff
>> <dstockhoff at verizon.net>wrote:
>>
>>> Definitely. But the alzabo remains a beast, which is the important
>>> difference, I think. The voice within it speaks, but it is not the voice
>>> of
>>> the alzabo, which has no awareness. It's less than a biological
>>> puppet---far from a full possession or animation.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/7/2013 10:42 AM, Antonin Scriabin wrote:
>>>
>>>> "in that they actually create themselves---their conscious
>>>> selves---with
>>>> the act of drinking"
>>>>
>>>> The other thing is that Jahlee says without drinking the blood, the
>>>> inhumi would remain beasts as well. The alzabo and inhumi seem very
>>>> similar in this regard as well.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:36 AM, David Stockhoff
>>>> <dstockhoff at verizon.net<mailto:
>>>> dstockhoff at verizon.net**>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> In the absence of any concrete answer, I'd lean toward "recurring
>>>> notion." But it's one that's grounded in Wolfe's obsessions:
>>>> identity, speech-as-identity, spirit/soul/thought (or
>>>> memory-as-identity) vs matter/flesh/reality, and morality of
>>>> action regardless of moral starting point. The alzabo is a beast
>>>> even when it speaks, however, so the inhumi are a more developed
>>>> idea, in that they actually create themselves---their conscious
>>>> selves---with the act of drinking (drinking and eating being
>>>> separate acts of the sacrament).
>>>>
>>>> With Jahlee, there may be a rough parallel to the virgin birth as
>>>> well, if you take Krait (the mind of Krait, not the mutable body
>>>> that holds Krait) as having been born of Jahlee's drinking of
>>>> Sinew's blood rather than whatever conjugation created his body.
>>>> This suggests the Trinity of course---the ultimate "ghost" story,
>>>> with all its implications.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/6/2013 10:43 PM, Antonin Scriabin wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Another idea popped into my head, albeit on a different topic:
>>>>
>>>> Jahlee says, right before her death, "We take their minds from
>>>> your blood. Their minds are yours. Here, long ago, I drank the
>>>> blood of your small son. Krait was my son, the only one who
>>>> lived with the mind it took from yours."
>>>>
>>>> This strikes me as very similar to the alzabo Severian
>>>> encounters, that eats the family he stays with. The father, I
>>>> believe, is eaten first, and his mind "bubbles up" in the
>>>> alzabo and speaks to the family when it breaks into their
>>>> home. There are few shared dynamics in these scenes. For
>>>> example, apart from the implication that the minds of the
>>>> human characters are contained in their blood / flesh, there
>>>> is an eerie, "unnatural" connection between one son (Krait via
>>>> Jahlee) and his father (Horn) in the one case, and another son
>>>> (little Severian) and his father (surfaced in the demeanor of
>>>> the alzabo, addressing him) in the other. Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> There is also the eating of Thecla's flesh and the transfer of
>>>> "mind" (powered by alzabo glands) ... the sacramental
>>>> mechanics are pretty clear. Is there any meaningful
>>>> connection between alzabo and inhumu, or is this "blood /
>>>> flesh as mind" just a recurring notion in the two series, one
>>>> that Wolfe is particularly fond of?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Marc Aramini
>>>> <marcaramini at yahoo.com <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com>
>>>> <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com
>>>> <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com>**>>
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On *Wed, 2/6/13, DAVID STOCKHOFF
>>>> /<dstockhoff at verizon.net <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net**>
>>>>
>>>> <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net
>>>>
>>>> <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net**>>>/* wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: DAVID STOCKHOFF <dstockhoff at verizon.net
>>>> <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net**>
>>>> <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net
>>>>
>>>> <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net**>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: (urth) Silk/Horn in the Matachin Tower
>>>> To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net
>>>> <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net>
>>>> <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net
>>>>
>>>> <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net>>>
>>>>
>>>> Date: Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 10:12 AM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You're always a few steps ahead, Mark. :)
>>>>
>>>> Is there a consensus that it's Typhon's mausoleum?
>>>> Does this
>>>> suggest Severian "looks like" Typhon? Or someone else?
>>>>
>>>> Also, do you think the stiff-legged "bird-like" person
>>>> you
>>>> mentioned is actually tree-related, and that's why he's
>>>> stiff-legged ? (not really birdlike at all, in other
>>>> words)
>>>>
>>>> No consensus on the mausoleum and if it is the infamous one
>>>> of
>>>> which Severian claims, "I have seen my tomb and now go to
>>>> lie in
>>>> it" or something to that effect, but that would certainly
>>>> establish a very strange genetic relationship between
>>>> Typhon and
>>>> Severian that I had previously only been able to firmly
>>>> ascribe
>>>> only to Silk, as Typhon's probable "heir".
>>>> As far as the stiff-legged thing in the "colorless cloak"
>>>> on the
>>>> high ground on Green, I think that is probably an echo of
>>>> maimed
>>>> Severian on his high island, now that the waters have
>>>> receded, or
>>>> at least some eidolon of Sev, effectively immortal.
>>>> Unless it is
>>>> just a Vanished Person ...
>>>>
>>>>
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