(urth) Silk/Horn in the Matachin Tower
Jeff Wilson
jwilson at clueland.com
Thu Feb 7 08:48:15 PST 2013
The assimilation of devoured prey memories is almost certainly a product
of genetic engineering by the Yesodis, if not Father Inire himself, to use
the analept to produce a truly enlightened despot.
On Thu, February 7, 2013 09:57, Antonin Scriabin wrote:
> Ah, ok. The speech isn't true speech, just animal imitation, in a way.
> Perhaps a highly evolved form of mimicry design to lure prey?
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:54 AM, David Stockhoff
> <dstockhoff at verizon.net>wrote:
>
>> Definitely. But the alzabo remains a beast, which is the important
>> difference, I think. The voice within it speaks, but it is not the voice
>> of
>> the alzabo, which has no awareness. It's less than a biological
>> puppet---far from a full possession or animation.
>>
>>
>> On 2/7/2013 10:42 AM, Antonin Scriabin wrote:
>>
>>> "in that they actually create themselves---their conscious
>>> selves---with
>>> the act of drinking"
>>>
>>> The other thing is that Jahlee says without drinking the blood, the
>>> inhumi would remain beasts as well. The alzabo and inhumi seem very
>>> similar in this regard as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:36 AM, David Stockhoff
>>> <dstockhoff at verizon.net<mailto:
>>> dstockhoff at verizon.net**>> wrote:
>>>
>>> In the absence of any concrete answer, I'd lean toward "recurring
>>> notion." But it's one that's grounded in Wolfe's obsessions:
>>> identity, speech-as-identity, spirit/soul/thought (or
>>> memory-as-identity) vs matter/flesh/reality, and morality of
>>> action regardless of moral starting point. The alzabo is a beast
>>> even when it speaks, however, so the inhumi are a more developed
>>> idea, in that they actually create themselves---their conscious
>>> selves---with the act of drinking (drinking and eating being
>>> separate acts of the sacrament).
>>>
>>> With Jahlee, there may be a rough parallel to the virgin birth as
>>> well, if you take Krait (the mind of Krait, not the mutable body
>>> that holds Krait) as having been born of Jahlee's drinking of
>>> Sinew's blood rather than whatever conjugation created his body.
>>> This suggests the Trinity of course---the ultimate "ghost" story,
>>> with all its implications.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/6/2013 10:43 PM, Antonin Scriabin wrote:
>>>
>>> Another idea popped into my head, albeit on a different topic:
>>>
>>> Jahlee says, right before her death, "We take their minds from
>>> your blood. Their minds are yours. Here, long ago, I drank the
>>> blood of your small son. Krait was my son, the only one who
>>> lived with the mind it took from yours."
>>>
>>> This strikes me as very similar to the alzabo Severian
>>> encounters, that eats the family he stays with. The father, I
>>> believe, is eaten first, and his mind "bubbles up" in the
>>> alzabo and speaks to the family when it breaks into their
>>> home. There are few shared dynamics in these scenes. For
>>> example, apart from the implication that the minds of the
>>> human characters are contained in their blood / flesh, there
>>> is an eerie, "unnatural" connection between one son (Krait via
>>> Jahlee) and his father (Horn) in the one case, and another son
>>> (little Severian) and his father (surfaced in the demeanor of
>>> the alzabo, addressing him) in the other. Thoughts?
>>>
>>> There is also the eating of Thecla's flesh and the transfer of
>>> "mind" (powered by alzabo glands) ... the sacramental
>>> mechanics are pretty clear. Is there any meaningful
>>> connection between alzabo and inhumu, or is this "blood /
>>> flesh as mind" just a recurring notion in the two series, one
>>> that Wolfe is particularly fond of?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Marc Aramini
>>> <marcaramini at yahoo.com <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com>
>>> <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com
>>> <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com>**>>
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On *Wed, 2/6/13, DAVID STOCKHOFF
>>> /<dstockhoff at verizon.net <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net**>
>>>
>>> <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net
>>>
>>> <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net**>>>/* wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: DAVID STOCKHOFF <dstockhoff at verizon.net
>>> <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net**>
>>> <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net
>>>
>>> <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net**>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: (urth) Silk/Horn in the Matachin Tower
>>> To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net
>>> <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net>
>>> <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net
>>>
>>> <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net>>>
>>>
>>> Date: Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 10:12 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> You're always a few steps ahead, Mark. :)
>>>
>>> Is there a consensus that it's Typhon's mausoleum?
>>> Does this
>>> suggest Severian "looks like" Typhon? Or someone else?
>>>
>>> Also, do you think the stiff-legged "bird-like" person
>>> you
>>> mentioned is actually tree-related, and that's why he's
>>> stiff-legged ? (not really birdlike at all, in other
>>> words)
>>>
>>> No consensus on the mausoleum and if it is the infamous one
>>> of
>>> which Severian claims, "I have seen my tomb and now go to
>>> lie in
>>> it" or something to that effect, but that would certainly
>>> establish a very strange genetic relationship between
>>> Typhon and
>>> Severian that I had previously only been able to firmly
>>> ascribe
>>> only to Silk, as Typhon's probable "heir".
>>> As far as the stiff-legged thing in the "colorless cloak"
>>> on the
>>> high ground on Green, I think that is probably an echo of
>>> maimed
>>> Severian on his high island, now that the waters have
>>> receded, or
>>> at least some eidolon of Sev, effectively immortal.
>>> Unless it is
>>> just a Vanished Person ...
>>>
>>>
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>>
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--
Jeff Wilson - < jwilson at clueland.com >
A&M Texarkana Computational Intelligence Lab
< http://www.tamut.edu/cil >
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