(urth) Silk/Horn in the Matachin Tower

[David Stockhoff]

Exactly---at least that was always my impression. Severian doesn't 
appear to suspect the creature of having consciousness, and for me, the 
wonderful horror of that whole scene lies in the speech of the dead 
family members' coming from the jaws of a slavering carnivore---in 
humans being hunted like any animal, tricked by a mere evolutionary 
adaptation.

Some cells of the alzabo's brain think as the dead person thought for a 
while, and then the effect may largely wear off once the alzabo has 
moved on to hunt other prey. Severian was permanently affected by Thecla 
only, I think, because he loved her.

On 2/7/2013 10:57 AM, Antonin Scriabin wrote:
> Ah, ok.  The speech isn't true speech, just animal imitation, in a 
> way.  Perhaps a highly evolved form of mimicry design to lure prey?
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:54 AM, David Stockhoff 
> <dstockhoff at verizon.net <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net>> wrote:
>
>     Definitely. But the alzabo remains a beast, which is the important
>     difference, I think. The voice within it speaks, but it is not the
>     voice of the alzabo, which has no awareness. It's less than a
>     biological puppet---far from a full possession or animation.
>
>
>     On 2/7/2013 10:42 AM, Antonin Scriabin wrote:
>
>         "in that they actually create themselves---their conscious
>         selves---with the act of drinking"
>
>         The other thing is that Jahlee says without drinking the
>         blood, the inhumi would remain beasts as well.  The alzabo and
>         inhumi seem very similar in this regard as well.
>
>
>
>         On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:36 AM, David Stockhoff
>         <dstockhoff at verizon.net <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net>
>         <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net
>         <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net>>> wrote:
>
>             In the absence of any concrete answer, I'd lean toward
>         "recurring
>             notion." But it's one that's grounded in Wolfe's obsessions:
>             identity, speech-as-identity, spirit/soul/thought (or
>             memory-as-identity) vs matter/flesh/reality, and morality of
>             action regardless of moral starting point. The alzabo is a
>         beast
>             even when it speaks, however, so the inhumi are a more
>         developed
>             idea, in that they actually create themselves---their
>         conscious
>             selves---with the act of drinking (drinking and eating being
>             separate acts of the sacrament).
>
>             With Jahlee, there may be a rough parallel to the virgin
>         birth as
>             well, if you take Krait (the mind of Krait, not the
>         mutable body
>             that holds Krait) as having been born of Jahlee's drinking of
>             Sinew's blood rather than whatever conjugation created his
>         body.
>             This suggests the Trinity of course---the ultimate "ghost"
>         story,
>             with all its implications.
>
>
>             On 2/6/2013 10:43 PM, Antonin Scriabin wrote:
>
>                 Another idea popped into my head, albeit on a
>         different topic:
>
>                 Jahlee says, right before her death, "We take their
>         minds from
>                 your blood. Their minds are yours. Here, long ago, I
>         drank the
>                 blood of your small son. Krait was my son, the only
>         one who
>                 lived with the mind it took from yours."
>
>                 This strikes me as very similar to the alzabo Severian
>                 encounters, that eats the family he stays with.  The
>         father, I
>                 believe, is eaten first, and his mind "bubbles up" in the
>                 alzabo and speaks to the family when it breaks into their
>                 home.  There are few shared dynamics in these scenes.  For
>                 example, apart from the implication that the minds of the
>                 human characters are contained in their blood / flesh,
>         there
>                 is an eerie, "unnatural" connection between one son
>         (Krait via
>                 Jahlee) and his father (Horn) in the one case, and
>         another son
>                 (little Severian) and his father (surfaced in the
>         demeanor of
>                 the alzabo, addressing him) in the other.  Thoughts?
>
>                 There is also the eating of Thecla's flesh and the
>         transfer of
>                 "mind" (powered by alzabo glands) ... the sacramental
>                 mechanics are pretty clear.  Is there any meaningful
>                 connection between alzabo and inhumu, or is this "blood /
>                 flesh as mind" just a recurring notion in the two
>         series, one
>                 that Wolfe is particularly fond of?
>
>
>                 On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Marc Aramini
>                 <marcaramini at yahoo.com <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com>
>         <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com>>
>                 <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com
>         <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com> <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com
>         <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com>>>>
>
>                 wrote:
>
>
>
>                     --- On *Wed, 2/6/13, DAVID STOCKHOFF
>                 /<dstockhoff at verizon.net
>         <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net> <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net
>         <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net>>
>
>                     <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net
>         <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net>
>
>                 <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net
>         <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net>>>>/* wrote:
>
>
>                         From: DAVID STOCKHOFF <dstockhoff at verizon.net
>         <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net>
>                 <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net
>         <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net>>
>                         <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net
>         <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net>
>
>                 <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net
>         <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net>>>>
>
>
>                         Subject: Re: (urth) Silk/Horn in the Matachin
>         Tower
>                         To: "The Urth Mailing List"
>         <urth at lists.urth.net <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net>
>                 <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net>>
>                         <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net
>         <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net>
>
>                 <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net
>         <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net>>>>
>
>                         Date: Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 10:12 AM
>
>
>                         You're always a few steps ahead, Mark. :)
>
>                         Is there a consensus that it's Typhon's mausoleum?
>                 Does this
>                         suggest Severian "looks like" Typhon? Or
>         someone else?
>
>                         Also, do you think the stiff-legged
>         "bird-like" person you
>                         mentioned is actually tree-related, and that's
>         why he's
>                         stiff-legged ? (not really birdlike at all, in
>         other
>                 words)
>
>                     No consensus on the mausoleum and if it is the
>         infamous one of
>                     which Severian claims, "I have seen my tomb and
>         now go to
>                 lie in
>                     it" or something to that effect, but that would
>         certainly
>                     establish a very strange genetic relationship between
>                 Typhon and
>                     Severian that I had previously only been able to
>         firmly
>                 ascribe
>                     only to Silk, as Typhon's probable "heir".
>                     As far as the stiff-legged thing in the "colorless
>         cloak"
>                 on the
>                     high ground on Green, I think that is probably an
>         echo of
>                 maimed
>                     Severian on his high island, now that the waters have
>                 receded, or
>                     at least some eidolon of Sev, effectively immortal.
>                  Unless it is
>                     just a Vanished Person ...
>
>
>                     _______________________________________________
>                     Urth Mailing List
>                     To post, write urth at urth.net
>         <mailto:urth at urth.net> <mailto:urth at urth.net
>         <mailto:urth at urth.net>>
>                 <mailto:urth at urth.net <mailto:urth at urth.net>
>         <mailto:urth at urth.net <mailto:urth at urth.net>>>
>
>                     Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net
>
>
>
>
>                 _______________________________________________
>                 Urth Mailing List
>                 To post, write urth at urth.net <mailto:urth at urth.net>
>         <mailto:urth at urth.net <mailto:urth at urth.net>>
>                 Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net
>
>
>             _______________________________________________
>             Urth Mailing List
>             To post, write urth at urth.net <mailto:urth at urth.net>
>         <mailto:urth at urth.net <mailto:urth at urth.net>>
>             Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net
>
>
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         Urth Mailing List
>         To post, write urth at urth.net <mailto:urth at urth.net>
>         Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Urth Mailing List
>     To post, write urth at urth.net <mailto:urth at urth.net>
>     Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Urth Mailing List
> To post, write urth at urth.net
> Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net