(urth) The Wizard

[Daniel Petersen]

Yes, Jerry, I confirm that I think Christians can (and ought to) embrace
God as 'dark' in ways distinct from implying evil - this is in poetic
counterpoise to the passages about him as light.  (The Psalms say God
'wraps himself in a canopy of darkness', for example.)  And I also agree
with your last statement about the Outsider being best construed as God on
a Catholic understanding - not somehow substandard to that.

-DOJP

On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 10:54 PM, Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman at yahoo.com>wrote:

>  Thanks for your answers.  I'm sorry if I was unclear.  I didn't intend
> to suggest there was any nastiness or meanness or evil or cruel delight in
> the Christian conception of God, and I don't think Dan'l did either.  I
> suggested that Silk's speculation that the Outsider was "good in a dark
> way" was compatible with his being God, from Wolfe's point of view and from
> an orthodox Catholic point of view (if they're different).
>
> The Biblical passages you mentioned are illuminating (sorry), and I wasn't
> aware of them.  (So is John 1, which I looked at before noticing that you'd
> cited 1 John 1.)  They suggest that a Catholic wouldn't call God "dark".
> However, you're willing to say "good in a 'dark' and even 'scary' way" and
> "darkly merciful", so I gather that's a different sense of "dark".  And
> from all this, I'm not convinced by the argument that the Outsider is too
> "dark" to be God as Wolfe, or Catholics in general, see him.
>
> Jerry Friedman
>
>   *From:* Daniel Petersen <danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com>
> *To:* The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 6, 2012 4:06 PM
> *Subject:* Re: (urth) The Wizard
>
> Furthermore, the Christian God is deeply merciful at his core and perhaps
> that too is 'dark' and 'scary' to people who would give everything to
> neither receive that mercy nor be merciful to others (from the Christian
> understanding).  That darkly merciful God comes through in Wolfe very
> strongly to me ('dark' in the sense of *mysterious* also, the miracles of
> incarnation and atonement being paradoxical and bizarre).
>
> -DOJP
>
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:02 PM, Daniel Petersen <
> danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Uh, I think you guys may be getting a little confused here.  The Christian
> God is Good in a 'dark' and even 'scary' way because he is HOLY.  There is
> no 'nastiness' or 'meanness' in the Christian conception of God.  He
> doesn't delight in the death of the wicked as the prophet Ezekiel puts it.
>  In that sense 'in him there is no darkness at all' as 1 John chapter 1
> puts it.  Tread carefully here if you want to speak coherently about
> orthodox theology.  Not for sensibilities but for accuracy.  Pure goodness
> is nothing we've ever truly seen in fullness and the eternal Triune Love
> (as Christian theology would have it) is a degree of communion and
> self-giving glory we just cannot imagine ('he dwells in unapproachable
> light' as Paul put it).  Thus this kind of transcendent goodness can be
> downright terrifying to people enmeshed in spiritual darkness and sin
> (again from the Christian story).  That is what it means for God not to be
> 'safe' or 'tame'.  God's wildness is a terror to evil, not a participant in
> it.
>
> -DOJP
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo at gmail.com>wrote:
>
> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>
> > I believe one could make a case from the Christian point of view
> > that God is good in a dark way, since he kills lots of people and
> > condemns people to eternal torment.  I hope the Christians here will
> > correct me if I'm wrong, but I can see Wolfe believing that God, who
> > created space and the stars, is good in every way, including the dark
> way.
>
> No correction from me. C.S. Lewis put it very succinctly: "Aslan is
> not a _tame_ lion." God is good but he isn't _nice_.
>
>
> --
> Dan'l Danehy-Oakes
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