(urth) The Wizard

Daniel Petersen danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com
Wed Mar 7 13:22:04 PST 2012


Lee, I'm not the least offended - my passionate response to you is from a
desire to see a* good reading* of the Bible and theology.  And, brother,
you should not be 'comfortable' with your reading of the Hebrew Scriptures.
 Of course I see the war and genocide in the Old Testament, but do
*you*see all the grace and mercy that are there from beginning to end?
 (Not
just in the later prophets.)  Again, I can't get into citing all the many
passages, instances, trajectories and so on.  But just take the creation
accounts, the compassion toward Israel enslaved, the patience and
forgiveness toward a people who rebel time and again, etc.  Some of the
absolute tenderest and gentlest pictures of God are from the OT, from early
to late material.  At best, you could say the OT portrays a very mixed view
of God, full of tensions - but not the one-sided essentially 'pagan'
monster you've described, Lee.  I can't even begin to take that view
seriously.  Again, I'm just being right to the point, not trying to bully.
 (I don't think the OT God is really 'mixed' either for the record - I
agree *to some degree* with what the others said about the 'evolving' view
of God in the OT, but with less scepticism about its historical veracity
for one thing.  But all that would have to be argued for and it's a
worthwhile discussion.)

If it is your view
that God doles out rewards and punishments for devotion and disobedience as
much
now as He did in Genesis I respect your position and will not debate it.

No.  That is not my view.  (Assuming, for the sake of argument, that it's
even a coherent view.)

-DOJP

On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Lee Berman <severiansola at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> >Daniel Petersen: I can't imagine a more jaundiced, blinkered, selective
> >reading of the Old Testament and the doctrine of God that emerges from it
> >(if you've really read 'Genesis to Malachi' at all).  I'm not at all
> >trying to assault or insult you, Lee.
>
> No offense taken, Daniel. I am more concerned that I have offended your
> beliefs, which I did not intend to do. Still, you might correctly infer
> from my name that I was raised in the jewish faith and have read the Old
> Testament both in English and Hebrew. I am confortable with my
> understanding
> of its meaning and original intent.
>
> As Christians are most focused on the gospels of the NT, so jews are
> focused
> on the Pentateuch. I think you would have to be selective and blinkered to
> read it and NOT see the war, genocide and paganistic trappings found among
> the ancient Hebrews and their God.
>
> Now if you are suggesting that God is more mellow and peaceful in the later
> prophet books than He is in Genesis and Exodus I would agree. This supports
> my thesis that this is an evolving God.
>
> You know, many Christians today are critical of Muslims and Sharia law.
> But from
> polygamy to honor killings to homosexual and slut stonings to holy wars,
> all that
> is criticized of Islam can be found in the Old Testament. Things that are
> not
> found in the New Testament, as far as I know.  But I am willing to learn
> differently and be corrected if I am wrong.
>
> Perhaps those more familiar with the NT find it to be just as brutal, with
> a God
> as warlike and vengeful as God is in the Pentateuch. I know some feel that
> AIDS
> is simply a modern way for God to punish gays and the Tsunami was a way to
> punish non-Christian heathens in Indonesia and Thailand etc. If it is your
> view
> that God doles out rewards and punishments for devotion and disobedience
> as much
> now as He did in Genesis I respect your position and will not debate it.
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