(urth) Predictions Re: The Politics Of Gene Wolfe

James B. Jordan jbjordan4 at cox.net
Wed Aug 1 17:14:06 PDT 2012


My bad. Apologies. Founders were more a mixed lot, from what I can tell.

JBJordan

At 05:09 PM 8/1/2012, you wrote:
>Actually, nobody said that, and we obviously don't know the IQs of 
>anyone born before the IQ test was developed, and the "founding 
>fathers" were deists (who hated and feared Roman Catholics, but hey, 
>nobody's perfect).
>
>Otherwise, great comment!
>
>On 8/1/2012 4:38 PM, James B. Jordan wrote:
>>It's odd that a man who has written from a Christian, in his case 
>>Roman Catholic, strongly libertarian, anti-welfare state, and 
>>traditional conservative semi-isolationist perspective -- which 
>>after all is and has been advocated by people with IQs well over 
>>150 for centuries and was the position of the founders of the 
>>United States -- is considered loony for doing so.
>>
>>People who think this way need an education in history.
>>
>>JBJordan
>>
>>At 01:15 PM 8/1/2012, you wrote:
>>>Dave,
>>>
>>>Thanks for the response. I just wanted to call out one bit...
>>>
>>>YOU WROTE: "I'm very inclined to agree with you, but at the same 
>>>time it seems valid to wonder exactly how self-aware on this point 
>>>a man in his 80s can be."
>>>
>>>I'm not sure if you have ever had the good fortune to hold a 
>>>conversation with Mr. Wolfe, but as of last year, I found him to 
>>>be the type of conversationalist that always to seem to be two 
>>>steps ahead of you, ready with a quip, eager for an anecdote, 
>>>anxious to counter point your point, in a wry, light-hearted, jovial manner.
>>>
>>>And that LAUGH! Equal parts genuine and sinister; the type of 
>>>laugh to comfort you at the same time it sets you on edge.
>>>
>>>Not sure if any of that translates to acutely self-aware, but his 
>>>opinions and outlook seems very grounded in relevant, present-day 
>>>culture and not a paranoid Cold War outlook or anything to that extent.
>>>
>>>Just wanted to add that piece of perspective. I would be curious 
>>>to any others who have gotten to know Mr. Wolfe how they compare 
>>>my assessment, or if I am speaking from the minority on the matter.
>>>
>>>...ryan
>>>
>>>
>>>On Aug 1, 2012, at 2:04 PM, DAVID STOCKHOFF wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     From: Ryan Dunn <ryan at liftingfaces.com
>>>>     <mailto:ryan at liftingfaces.com> >
>>>>     To: The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net
>>>>     <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net>>
>>>>     Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 9:18 AM
>>>>     Subject: Re: (urth) Predictions Re: The Politics Of Gene Wolfe
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     On Aug 1, 2012, at 8:55 AM, David Stockhoff
>>>>     <dstockhoff at verizon.net <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     >>> Sure, of course it was a lark. And yes, one could easily
>>>>     interpret each one as /half /true. Where does that get us?
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>> As clarification, I didn't mean Wolfe /intended/ to predict
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>> "what cranky, ill-informed old people will
>>>>     believe/fear/desire in 2012."
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>> And yet he succeeded---in my estimation, by /more than/
>>>>     half. That must mean something.
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>> BTW, literacy paranoia has been in vogue in the US since at
>>>>     least the 1960s.
>>>>     >> Since a few posters were giving varying amounts of weight to
>>>>     these predictions and letting it color their impression of him,
>>>>     the place my observation was hoping to get us was actually out
>>>>     of such a lofty critique of what I took to be a half joke blip
>>>>     of Mr. Wolfe's musings.
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> ...ryan
>>>>     > Understood. But what's "lofty" about making an observation
>>>>     about the written word---or trying to make sense of another
>>>>     reader's observation?
>>>>     >
>>>>     > One could easily write whole books of criticism about the
>>>>     paranoid style in Gene Wolfe, and in dystopian SF in general (as
>>>>     someone has already noted). I don't know what they would
>>>>     conclude, but I'd be interested in reading them.
>>>>     >
>>>>     >
>>>>     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paranoid_Style_in_American_Politics
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     Dave,
>>>>
>>>>     I was not inferring your critique was lofty, in case I gave you
>>>>     that impression. I was referring more to the earlier passion on
>>>>     this thread, and felt that we (as a collective of readers with a
>>>>     shared interest on a common mailing list) may have been taking
>>>>     his written word a bit seriously.
>>>>
>>>>     My point is that he seems to be a bit flippant, half smiling,
>>>>     and not all together serious in these predictions. So when
>>>>     someone takes "a great interest in predictions and what they
>>>>     reveal," for instance, I would hope that Mr. Wolfe's five
>>>>     fingered prediction would have revealed that he is indeed a sly,
>>>>     shifty, elusive prankster, even when portending to dole out 25
>>>>     year predictions.
>>>>
>>>>     I got the vibe that it was not being interpreted with as light a
>>>>     hand as that, however. In fact, I got the impression they were
>>>>     used to support a feeling of disenchantment with him as a man,
>>>>     which may have gotten me riled a little bit. While he may write
>>>>     from an extreme, and detailed perspective on society, he does
>>>>     not seem at all to be a dystopian, right-wing loon who is
>>>>     increasingly using his prose to somehow push a conservative,
>>>>     anti-socialist agenda (which was also inferred on this and other
>>>>     threads recently).
>>>>
>>>>     Hope that clarifies my points on this matter a little bit better.
>>>>
>>>>     ...ryan
>>>>
>>>>     Yes it does, thanks!
>>>>
>>>>     Of course, in order to reach a conclusion that Wolfe was playing
>>>>     specifically with "right-wing loon"-ness, one must first agree
>>>>     that he came off a little "right-wing loon"-y. If you think he
>>>>     wasn't doing that, there is still that cast or quality to
>>>>     explain. I'm very inclined to agree with you, but at the same
>>>>     time it seems valid to wonder exactly how self-aware on this
>>>>     point a man in his 80s can be.
>>>>
>>>>     Ultimately, there's plenty of room between raising that question
>>>>     and suggesting a conscious agenda. And I see no reflection on
>>>>     the man himself---he's probably way more together than Heinlein
>>>>     was in his later years. Gwern may choose to speak on that point,
>>>>     or not.
>>>>
>>>>     In fact, the question tends to weaken the suggestion of an
>>>>     agenda, which I find quite un-Wolfe-like. Much more likely that
>>>>     he was not trying to be loon-y at all, in his own mind, just
>>>>     playing along in his provocative way. But people do get set in
>>>>     their mental pathways with age, and maybe these moments of
>>>>     candor can be revealing. As a frinstance, my dad is also in his
>>>>     eighties and still very liberal in outlook, but even he passes
>>>>     along silly emails that reflect a certain, er, something. (No,
>>>>     setting fires out West would not be a clever way for a terrorist
>>>>     to create terror. It would require a lot of work by a lot of
>>>>     people and they'd get caught. And so on.)
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Urth Mailing List
>>>>To post, write urth at urth.net <mailto:urth at urth.net>
>>>>Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Urth Mailing List
>>>To post, write urth at urth.net
>>>Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net <http://www.urth.net/>
>>
>>James B. Jordan
>>Director, Biblical Horizons
>>Box 1096
>>Niceville, FL 32588
>>http://www.biblicalhorizons.com <http://www.biblicalhorizons.com/>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Urth Mailing List
>>To post, write urth at urth.net
>>Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>Urth Mailing List
>To post, write urth at urth.net
>Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net

James B. Jordan
Director, Biblical Horizons
Box 1096
Niceville, FL 32588
http://www.biblicalhorizons.com 




More information about the Urth mailing list