(urth) Urth - Earth links

[Sergei SOLOVIEV]

If you got interested in the links between Urth and our world - please,
answer this: how the Chrasmological writings were composed?
Yes, we know "within the book" that Typhon/Pas ordered some scholars to 
do it.
But I mean other question - what message wants GW to pass to us,
regarding their content?

There are several quotations from the books of our time. Actually,
all passages that are explicitly  given are such quotations.

Andrew Bollen, Josh Geller and James Wynn discussed long ago the 
quotation from
the "Hamlet's Mill" by Giorgio di Santillana and Hertha von Dechend.

"A simple way would be to admit that myth is neither irresponsible =
fantasy, nor the object of weighty psychology, or any such thing. It is =
wholly other, and requires to be looked at with open eyes."
(Horn/Silk reads it in the Grand Manteion.)

Another quotation is from Pope's translation from Odyssey. (Horn/Silk
reads to Olivine, half-finished daughter of Maytera Marble.)
Then it was also (slightly modified) quotation from Sapho in the
end of the Horn/Silk story.

My point is that GW didn't just use beautiful poetry, but that he
wanted us to recognize them as quotations, and that brings a message.

Best to all -

Sergei Soloviev



larry miller wrote:
> yeah OK I can see the prospect of Inire going back seeking knowledge
> from the past.  Maybe he wished to learn all he could about humanitys
> religious beliefs to help him propagate the New Suns legend in the far
> future?  I am aware of Urth being in a previous universe than our own
> but it was always my understanding that the Urth iteration and ours
> were still very similiar (the Apollo landing picture, or the
> Antechambers references to Alice in Wonderland for example).
>
> On 10/13/11, Lee Berman <severiansola at hotmail.com> wrote:
>   
>>     
>>> larry miller: Dont worry about sounding argumentative, this is a discussion
>>> group
>>> after all.
>>>       
>>
>> okay! though there have been times in the past where the discussion got
>> nasty and
>>
>> even personally disrespectful to some contributors. It's been my personal
>> goal to
>>
>> try to steer away from that trend.
>>
>>
>>
>>     
>>> David Stockhoff: For one thing, it has been noted that the Moffats lived
>>> before air
>>> travel, yet there is a plane. This and other twists (more than I can now
>>> recall) make the scene more and less than it appears. Is the scene from
>>> Urth's past? Our "present"? Or another "iteration" of Earth/Urth?
>>>       
>>> Or is it a scene of spirits called up by Inire, who built the Gardens
>>> and therefore has at least some control over time?
>>>       
>>
>> I agree with David. He is good at distilling the essential points from years
>> of
>>
>> previous discussion. I would only add that we might all agree that if
>> nothing
>>
>> else, Father Inire is a scholar, interested in collecting knowledge from
>> other
>>
>> places and times. I'm sure this was Wolfe's intention for having him visit
>> Africa and
>>
>> people of earth from roughly our own time frame (if Isangoma is Inire).
>>
>>
>>
>> Regarding the idea of another "iteration" of Earth/Urth, I'm thinking it
>> might be good
>>
>> to ensure that larry is aware of this interpretation of BotNS. My own best
>> evidence of
>>
>> this comes from Gene Wolfe himself, from the James Jordan interview
>>
>> http://mysite.verizon.net/~vze2tmhh/wolfejbj.html#urth:
>>
>>
>>
>>     
>>> JJ: This universe that you set in Briah, or part of it--is that our
>>> universe? Or is that
>>>       
>>> a universe that resurrected saints have set up in the world to come as part
>>> of the cities
>>>       
>>> that they made?
>>>       
>>
>>     
>>> GW: No. I thought of it as a long past universe. Something that we are
>>> repeating rather than
>>>       
>>> something that we are....I was looking at what past universes might have
>>> been like really...
>>>       
>>> And then I got into the idea of universal cycles. And decided that I would
>>> show that this might
>>>       
>>> be a past cycle. Some physicists at least think that the Big Bang is
>>> eventually going to be
>>>       
>>> followed by a Big Gnab in which the whole universe coalesces again which
>>> will be followed by
>>>       
>>> another Big Bang which is sort of like a succession of universe
>>>       
>>
>>
>> another crucially (for me) key quote from that interview is:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     
>>> JJ: Which is another way of saying, do we have fallen angels here or some
>>> type of power that
>>>       
>>> really was operative in the world before the kingdom of God?
>>>       
>>
>>     
>>> GW: That is my personal belief. I think that the gods of paganism were
>>> real. But what I tried
>>>       
>>> to do was to write about that pagan world as the pagans themselves wrote
>>> about it. If we read
>>>       
>>> modern historians we are reading a very rationalistic viewpoint of this
>>> which says that all of
>>>       
>>> these people were absolutely wasting their time by building temples to Ares
>>> or Apollo or you name
>>>       
>>> it. And by offering sacrifices in worship and all that it was nothing
>>> there. Nothing at all there
>>>       
>>> and that whether it is true or not that certainly is not the way the people
>>> who were doing it felt.
>>>       
>>> They were convinced that there was something there and they had all sorts
>>> of legends and so forth
>>>       
>>> about the appearances of the god and in fact there is one place in the Acts
>>> where Paul and another
>>>       
>>> one of the apostles are mistaken for Zeus and Mercury. Zeus and Hermes, we
>>> are mixing the Latin and
>>>       
>>> the Greek which is what I was trying to get away from. They are mistaken
>>> for Zeus and Hermes in human
>>>       
>>> form because people in those days expected that you could see Zeus and
>>> Hermes in human form. I am not
>>>       
>>> so sure they were wrong. I am not convinced that they were wrong. We love
>>> to think how much smarter we
>>>       
>>> are than people of ancient times or biblical times or so forth but I am
>>> very dubious about that. 		 	   		
>>>       
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