(urth) Silk's origin

[David Stockhoff]

On 10/10/2011 6:37 PM, James Wynn wrote:
> On 10/10/2011 2:06 PM,
>> Gerry Quinn wrote:
>>
>>> 2. We know Silk was an implanted embryo, so it is no surprise that 
>>> he has
>>> two sets of parents; his genetic parents back on Urth a thousand 
>>> years ago,
>>> and his surrogate parents in the Whorl.
>>   Andrew Mason wrote:
>> I think the two sets of parents actually count against the clone
>> theory; a clone does not have genetic parents in the ordinary sense.
>
>> One might call the parents of his source his parents in a way; (this
>> seems to be the line taken in _The Fifth Head of Cerberus_, where
>> Number Five is shown a picture of his 'mother', i.e. the mother of the
>> source of his line, back on Earth). But if Typhon was 'not born' it's
>> not clear he has parents, and if he does it's hard to see how they are
>> relevant to the story.
>
> That's true, although I think he *does* think of himself as having a 
> mother at least in the way that Number Five thinks of his "mother". 
> But maybe in the way that Silk thinks of himself as having a "mother". 
> (I'm referring to "Early Summer", of course)
>
> And it is troublesome in what sense Tussah considered himself Silk's 
> "father". If they ever met, Silk didn't remember it--only having seen 
> a bust of him in a closet. Tussah never married Silk's mother, and he 
> never officially adopted Silk. Silk did not have to be Tussah's son in 
> order to inherit the Caldeship. And to the extent that Silk's 
> connection to Tussah could ever be proven, it would only discredit his 
> claim to the title since Tussah explicitly said that his "son" would 
> be Calde after him. All this suggests that Tussah said that Silk was 
> "not the son of my body" merely because it was objectively true in 
> some sense. Not to identify him or out of fatherly feelings.
>
>> Moreover, we are told in a couple of places that the embryos are the
>> result of selective breeding, rather than clones.
>
> I missed that. What are you referring to?
>
>> Regarding who his parents are: Wolfe was once asked about Silk's
>> ancestry, and replied 'He is the son of the Calde and his mistress'.
>> This answer, which seems to relate to his birth-mother and adoptive
>> father, looks like a deliberate deflection of the question, not
>> telling us what the questioner wanted to know. This in turn suggests
>> that:
>> a. It is a significant question, which has an answer - his parents
>> aren't just Some Guy and Some Girl.
>> b. It's not meant to be obvious from the story, since when something
>> is meant to be obvious and readers don't get it, Wolfe is generally
>> happy to explain (e.g. who is Blood's father, or why did Auk kidnap
>> Hyacinth).
>
> I agree with this. I have long suspected that the parallel between 
> Tussah and Silk's birth-mother and Typhon and Kypris is intended. The 
> culture of Viron is the culture of the commonwealth under Typhon. It 
> is quite reasonable then that Typhon's title in the commonwealth was 
> "Calde". So in some sense, it would help if Silk were somehow the son 
> of both Typhon and Tussah.
>
> My working solution has been that Tussah is a clone of Typhon, and 
> that Silk is a clone of a son of Typhon and Kypris ("although he is 
> not the son of my body"). I think it is significant in a literary 
> sense that Pas and Tussah are murdered at around the same time.
>
> My problem is that I feel more and more confident all the time that 
> Silk is supposed to be Typhon as well (a clone is the most 
> straightforward explanation--and that blond hair seems like an 
> intended reference--we don't know Tussah's hair color because he's 
> bald). Yet Silk and Typhon do not resemble each other. It's frustrating.
> On the plus side to this theory, Silk tells Hide that 
> Jahlee-in-dream-travel (who is pretty clearly ensouled by Chenille) 
> could be his "aunt or sister". Well, the easiest way that that could 
> be true is if Chenille were both daughter of Typhon (through Tussah), 
> and the sister of Typhon (through Silk). It's frustrating.
>
> Ya know, everyone acknowledges the parallels between Severian and 
> Emperor Claudius in Robert Grave's "I, Claudius". Not enough remember 
> all that prophesy about the lineage of Julius Caesar to Nero--where 
> each is succeeded by a "son not son". I think that is significant. But 
> I can't exactly how it is broken down at this point, because I'm 
> thrown off that Silk and Tussah do not resemble each other.
>
>> I think his mother may be Mamelta. I don't know who his father is,
>> though I take it the answer is lurking somewhere. I can think of a
>> plausible sequnce of events that would allow it to be Typhon, but I
>> can also see problems with that - notably, that if spirits on the
>> Aureate Path appear as they did when they died, Silk should have
>> noticed that his father had two heads.
>
> Well, the problem with all the gods except for Tartarus is how weird 
> they look. Maybe Typhon saw himself as having two-heads and that's why 
> Pas looked that way. But did Echidna really see herself as a monster 
> with snakes for hair? Scylla had an affinity for Big Scylla but could 
> she have really thought of herself as a human octopus. If Typhon is 
> one of the fathers, he didn't *die* on the Whorl. If Silk meets Kypris 
> on the Aureate Path it is significant that he makes no remark about it 
> that is recorded. It still leaves open who the other mother is. If he 
> met Mamelta there, it would more nicely fit into the recorded 
> conversation.
>
> However, I'll note that Silk doesn't really describe the second father 
> (which is reasonable since the account is written by Horn after all, 
> anyway). Wolfe has this style of having a person say something, then 
> breaking the paragraph, and having the same person say something else. 
> It's quite jarring. Silk's father does that (I think) and so readers 
> generally assume that both the fathers speak to Silk. I don't think 
> they do. I think only one does, and I find that interesting. I want to 
> say that it was unnecessary to describe them both since they both look 
> like Tussah. But I'm bother that Silk doesn't look like Tussah as 
> well. It's a snake pit.
>
> J
Perhaps it's not so important. An identical genotype may give rise to 
disparate phenotypes after all. Things can happen during development as 
well as after birth that result in changes in appearance. Are they not 
both blonde?

(And this would be even more true if we are not talking about cloning 
but instead a narrow genotype from intensive enhanced breeding. Would 
your riddles work out OK if Silk was Typhon's "brother"?




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