(urth) Pike's ghost

[James Wynn]

On 11/29/2011 11:33 AM, António Pedro Marques wrote:
>
> So you admit that when you ask where others get their assumptions 
> from, it's a rhetoric/flippant question?

I have admitted nothing of the sort. If I am going to discuss a theory, 
I approach it from the position, "What if it were true? What would I 
expect?". I have never said to anyone, for an example, "This is /your/ 
theory. YOU come up with something that I will accept." I've been told 
that here in various ways by some people. I've seen people say it to 
others. That's expecting other people to prove you wrong. That's smug. 
That's a jerk.

>>> If everything everyone does has unspeakable motivations,
>>> why point out that this or that action have unspeakable motivations?
>>
>> That's like saying that because we are all sinners, discussion of good
>> behavior is pointless. It's like saying that anyone who condemns 
>> behavior is
>> "self-righteous", anyone who earns a decent salary is "greedy".
>
> Indeed, that's exactly where your procedure takes us: 'anyone who 
> takes a part of a literary work a priori at face value is "theorising"'.

No. That' is not where I am taking you. However, the second part is 
true.  I am asserting that people who are reading literature are 
theorizing. They are interpreting from the text the intentions of an 
author whom they have never met or barely know. I am demolishing the 
belief (which would be a desirable belief for anyone) that one's own 
interpretations need no justification...it just "is".

>>
>> But being smug doesn't require that you are wrong. It only means that 
>> you
>> are not applying to your own theories the rigor to which you are with 
>> great
>> adamance disputing others. It is a hypocrisy in which the hypocrite has
>> satisfied himself that his hypocrisy is "authentic". It's like a 
>> tyrant who
>> believes everything he does is just because God put him there. The 
>> "smug"
>> has constructed a palace of mirrors that all show /only/ himself and 
>> always
>> in the perfect light.
>
> Whereas others are convinced that their opinions are wrong, correct?

No. Wow, Antonio, everything with you is either on Everest or at the 
bottom of the Pacific. Do you really read Wolfe's stories with such an 
uncomfortable grasp on the idea of ambiguity? I'll say it again. If you 
engage with someone about ambiguous literary novels like Wolfe's, and 
you approach every question with the attitude, "Let's see if your weird 
new theory can prove me wrong." then you are smug. And you are wasting 
the other person's time. Done.

> Or - how do you say it? - 'if it's not my theory, they're not applying 
> to it the rigor which they are with great adamance disputing me'.

If that's what you've got out of our conversation then it is beyond my 
abilities to clarify it better.