(urth) Mythic Women in BotNS

[Lee Berman]

>James Wynn: I'm uncomfortable with your Chariots of the Gods theory...
 
Argh! First it was Roy giving my ideas an Einsteinian label (Grand Unified Theory), now
I have been von Danikenized! Sheesh. J/K but really my ideas are not meant to carry any
scientific implications at all. I mean them purely in a literary sense.
 
>....at a thematic level because Severian needs to be human for the Concilliator/Mediator 
>trope to work.
 
Yes, this is a disagreement. I see just the opposite in the history of mythical, religious
and legendary conciliators. Be it Hercules, Jesus, Pocahontas or Gandhi, the conciliator seems
to usually (always?) embody a portion of both sides which are to be reconciled. Able to speak
the language of both seems to be a prerequisite for the job. Are there exceptions in history?
 
I understand the idea (shared by many) that if Severian is to be the Epitome of Urth he must
be fully human. (yet, in the Jamesian model, isn't SilkHorn 100% human, 100% Neighbor?)
 
Anyway, the disagreement is not a fatal one and needn't be an impediment to further discussion. 
Severian's ancestry needn't factor into all dialog.
 
>There _is_ some sort of connection from Inire to Typhon-- and not just because he might have 
>worked for him.
 
Yow! might have worked for him? You also think Typhon may have had a vizier? (do you also agree
that the prime candidate in UotNS for this job is Ceryx? [not a saint name])
 
>The red hair is a flag of a Typhonian, and the connections between red hair and simian traits brings 
>us again to Inire.
 
Funny, I tend to see the same connection in reverse. How do you connect red hair and Typhon? (I have
some guesses but I'm interested in what you see).
 
 
>Additionally, I'm beginning to suspect that the F. Inire-to-Fenrir anagram is not just a lark:
>Inire = Fenrir. Cumaean = Jörmungandr. Severian = Surt. Tzadkiel Ship = Naglfar.
 
One of the JW's, John Watkins suggested the Fenrir connection last year and I thought it had a lot
of substance to it. Not only is there the Wolfe connection but the Moses (Mt Nebo), Prometheus (fire-
civilization bringer), Azazel (war and beautification bringer) connection. All these guys (including Fenrir) 
defied the big boss God and were in some fashion chained to a rock as punishment.
 
(and I have compared Severian to Hercules more than once...)
 
At the same time I found the connection between Inire and the Inuus-Faunus epithet. I think John thought
it was a battle- one or the other. But I think the character (and name) can be drawn from multiple sources.
 
>If one  decides that Wolfe is following closely the Ragnarock model, that last connection would suggest that Inire
>might be Tzadkiel in disguise since, according to the Gylfaginning, the ship that sets sail during Ragnarok is piloted 
>by the giant Hrym (whose name means "decrepit"). Also, there is some confabulation between Hrym and Loki (who is 
>mappable to Dionysus).
 
I definitely see the possibility that Inire and Tzadkiel are the same or aspects of one another from the text. Hyrm 
and Loki also fit the pattern in the guise of Hethor, the green man, the boatman, all liars and tricksters. It explains
why Inire seems to disappear from the story without explanation (reappearing as Ceryx though). It explains why both
Hethor and Tzadkiel seem to adore Severian as a master/hero (despite ostensibly trying to kill him and being a
being far superior to him).
 
>Naturally, this model will only make _you_ more convinced that Severian must be non-human since Surt is a giant just 
>as Hrym is a giant. On the other hand, it would be nigh impossible to have a story with mythological homages that does
> _not_ have all the main characters map to.
 
I am not so dogmatic about my models. And I don't think severian is "non-human". But he might be part god/alien if the 
mythological model holds true. The idea of "giant" does work in nicely when you are considering the role of Nephilim.
 
Biblical half-angel (fallen angel) beings on earth were seen as giants, in the sense of being big...But also there is the 
"men of reknown" aspect to them. In other words, "heroes". What were considered evil enemy, bad guys to the ancient Hebrews 
were good guys, heroic guys to the Greeks and Romans and Babylonians and Persians. And I think Wolfe recognizes this.
 
I am finding these contributions to be highly relevant and workable! Progress being made. :- ).