(urth) First Exodus theory revised

[Gerry Quinn]

From: "Lee Berman" <severiansola at hotmail.com>
>>Gerry Quinn:

>>So you are saying the Outsider really is a wooden toy?  After all, that's
>>what the dream tells us and we certainly didn't know it.
>
> Ah, Gerry, your pugnacious, argumentative side is on full display in this 
> post. Still, is
> probably better to not let that side get the best of you. For brevity, 
> I'll just say that
> for me this view of the Outsider hearkens back to the wooden marionette we 
> see early in
> BotNS in Severian's dream and forward to the mythic references to the 
> Outsider that
> we encounter later.

You think the Outsider is Baldanders?  Because that's who the marionette 
represents in Severian's dream.


>>I've re-read the passage containing the dream, and in fact it has a very
>>clear and obvious interpretation, which isn't really about sex and 
>>sexuality
>>although I was heading in the right direction.
>
> If it was clear and obvious, why didn't you get it the first time?

Fair enough, though I was on the way there.  Let's say it becomes obvious 
when one sees it.  I believe most people will see it now that I've pointed 
it out.


>>***************************************************
>>[using quotation marks for italics]
>>"I would claim her in that case, long before the end.  As I have so many
>>others.  As I am claiming Kypris even now because love always proceeds 
>>from
>>me, real love, true love.  First romance."
>>The Outsider was the dancing man on a toy, and the water the polished
>>toy-top on which he danced with Kypris, who was Hyacinth and Mother, too.
>>"First romance", sang the Outsider with the music box.  "First romance". 
>>It
>>was why he was called the Outsider.  He was outside -
>>[Remora wakes him up]
>>***************************************************
>
>>Isn't it totally obvious what is being said here?  Kypris is the goddess 
>>of
>>LOVE.  His love for Hyacinth and his love for his mother.  Kypris, 
>>Hyacinth,
>>Mother - they are all aspects of love, which proceeds from the Outsider.
>>There is absolutely no implication that they are the same human 
>>personality.
>>In fact the idea is absurd, because we know who Silk means by Mother
>>[capitalised] - he means his adoptive parent....
>
>>Yes, there are important revelations.  The Outsider is the God of Love.
>>that's about as important a revelation as you might hope for.


> I think "The Outsider is the God of Love" is an interesting interpretation 
> worth considering.
> It could be condensed to a common modern Christian aphorism, "God is Love" 
> and perhaps that's
> what Gene Wolfe intended to convey here.

No 'perhaps' about it, IMO.


> I don't see how that jibes with the wooden puppet or
> the later "God of Wine" association we get for The Outsider but I wouldn't 
> dismiss your idea
> out of hand.

The puppet is just a transition in Silk's dream.  The Dionysus reference is 
a pretty unimportant aside showing that the Outsider has been known by many 
names - several others are given throughout the Solar Cycle.  I don't know 
why some folks are trying to build it up - it has no apparent explanatory 
power since the Outsider displays very little in the way of specifically 
Dionysian associations.


> My own interpretation would focus on the idea that The Outsider has 
> directly interacted with each
> of the women mentioned in a way which is significant to Silk.

Well, yes... the interaction is precisely that they represent to Silk the 
Outsider in his aspect as Love.


> I would not dismiss Marc's consideration
> that the dream shows a thread of identity connection between these women 
> as "absurd". "A who
> was B who was C" implies an ABC connection to me.

It's absurd to say that Silk's adoptive mother is Hyacinth.  And when Silk 
capitalises Mother, he means his adoptive mother.

- Gerry Quinn