(urth) Inhumi in the Whorl

[Gerry Quinn]

From: "James Wynn" <crushtv at gmail.com>

>> We are told [the Neighbors] boarded the Whorl. We are told they infected 
>> the humans with inhumi.  We know there were inhumi on the Whorl.  It is 
>> reasonable to assume they carried out the infection when they boarded the 
>> Whorl.
>
> Except that it is difficult to imagine--based on the information 
> available-- how they would do that. On the other hand, it is easy to see 
> how they could have done it by infecting humans on Green--based on the 
> information available.

I don't see why.  Certainly if humans had gone to Green they could have been 
bitten.  But the Neighbours would still, surely, have had to bring the 
progeny such as Quetzal to the Whorl?  If they can go to the Whorl once, 
they can go twice.


>>> All they need to do is to influence some portion of humanity to make an 
>>> expedition to Green and ensure some of them are fed on by inhumi.  From 
>>> a technical perspective, that's a much simpler operation.
>>
>> You're forgetting that they would still have to get the resulting inhumi 
>> onto the Whorl.  Also, the time scale doesn't seem to work.  Windcloud 
>> said he boarded the Whorl before it arrived in their system, which fits a 
>> lot better with the apparent length of time Quetzal was in Viron.
>
> IIRC he said "your whorl when it neared our sun".  It is not necessary 
> assume this is "before it arrived in orbit".

Technically it probably is IMO.  But it's a minor point anyway, so let it 
pass.


> I don't see why this works better for Quetzal's timeline. They have been 
> in orbit for around 40 years. Quetzal has been Prolocuter for sometime 
> less than that. The presumption that Quetzal entered the Chapter 
> pretending to be a young man and aged as he advanced seems contrary to our 
> experience of them on Blue. Quetzal boarded the Whorl the same way inhumi 
> assaulted Blue. He pretended to be an old man and was put in place by a 
> human in power whom he had tamed--whether or not the human knew he was an 
> inhumi is debatable. In the cases of our examples of human pets on Blue 
> and Green, the inhumi's pets knew about them.

Hold on - you are saying Quetzal *flew* to the Whorl?  Even if it was very 
close to Green (which doesn't seem to be the case at the end of Exodus when 
the colonists travel to Blue) how would he have got in?

Also, you're ignoring the fact that Windcloud said he and his team boarded 
the Whorl.


> Still, it is not a problem for the Time-traveling Neighbors to have had 
> plenty of contact with humanity on the Whorl and on Urth _before_ the ship 
> arrived at the system.

Time-travelling Neighbours?  I will confess I only read the Short Sun 
trilogy once, but I don't remember any of that.  On what basis do you say 
the Neighbours were time travelling?  If they could travel ion time, why 
didn't they use this ability against the inhumi?


>> There's no record of such an expedition,
>
> But we _do_ have evidence of human landers with return capability. We 
> don't have that for Neighbors in contemporary times.

We are told they boarded the Whorl.  And infected it with inhumi.


> After having extrapolated a complex assault on the Whorl by the Neighbors 
> in unobserved spaceships and a complex operation involving releasing and 
> recapturing of wild inhumi on the Whorl, one cannot insist on explicit 
> citations.

Not that complex, surely!  They just get there and drill / cut a hole.  The 
landers are on the surface of the Whorl, so they might be the easiest way 
in.  There's no need to release and recapture inhumi in the Whorl - they can 
simply capture and release humans.


>> and no indication that Quetzal in particular was brought back from one.
>
> Quetzal did not need a lander to get to the Whorl.

Even if he flew there (and it's *way* further than Blue), how did he get in?


>>   And how would they influence people to do this anyway?
>
> How did an inhumi influence the resurrected HORN--who hated the inhumi--to 
> pass him off as his son? How did the inhumi on Green influence humans to 
> passionately work for them on Green? Getting humans to send an expedition 
> to Green is not hard to imagine. Why are you making me answer questions 
> for which you already know the answer?

The above examples were done in a variety of ways, none of which seem to 
apply here.  Seriously, what scenario are you implying?  I think you 
suggested that Tussah went - so what did the Neighbours do to make him go?


>> How would they even get to the Whorl to influence them, without having 
>> travelled there physically?
>
> Quetzal's irrelevant. He doesn't need a lander to get on the Whorl. 
> However, he would probably have needed to be encouraged to make the 
> attempt. He had a mission: to establish a thriving human colony on Green.

How did the neighbours influence Tussah, in Viron, a city in the Whorl.  Did 
they go there and talk to him?


>> We have no indication that dream travel can be used to make a permant 
>> relocation, or that dream travellers can bear children to colonise a new 
>> planet.
>
> Just because they have cities on Green, does not require that they have 
> their children there. If Green is only a dream away, why bother? Of 
> course, some Neighbors had a method to physically travel to Green 
> initially. But there is simply no evidence that that capability still 
> exists.

"I was one of those who boarded your Whorl as it neared our sun" - does that 
not count as evidence?  It's testimony, at least.  And Quetzal is evidence 
for its truth.


- Gerry Quinn