(urth) Appearances of Inire

[brunians at brunians.org]

Angels and fairies are not even a lot like gods.

They are much more like human beings than they are like gods.

.


> Thus the double quotes.
>
> brunians at brunians.org wrote:
>> These guys are not gods.
>>
>> They are angels or fairies or some such.
>>
>> The distinction is nontrivial.
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>>> Wolfe bases all his "gods" on "real" gods. Yes, there does seem to be a
>>> pairing of Mother and Father in Inire and the Cumaean, but then there
>>> would be.
>>>
>>> Lee Berman wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Well, obviously Inire's also Master Ultan.  Since he's clearly the
>>>>> Librarian.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Yes, Ultan is a curator. And like some other candidates, Ultan's eyes
>>>> are obscured. I think the dark haired woman in the grave is some
>>>> version
>>>> of Catherine. Why does Severian see her face in Ultan's? Could he be
>>>> Catherine's father? If Inire is also Dorcas' husband, he would appear
>>>> as grandfather to Severian on both sides of the family. Why IS he
>>>> called
>>>> "Father" Inire? I can't recall any religious association.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Is Inire known to travel in time, himself?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> If he is Isangoma, who resembles the jungle shaman, then I'd say, yes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Why limit Inire to male characters? If he can be a fraking robot
>>>>> (Ossipago)
>>>>> and monkey his way up Agia's family tree (which, according to some,
>>>>> makes
>>>>> him related to Severian), and be both dead characters (Boatman,
>>>>> Maxellindis'
>>>>> uncle) and living ones, a change of gender is no obstacle.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> In UotNS we are rather explicitly shown that Tzadkiel can change size,
>>>> shape
>>>> gender and plurality, so I agree with Roy's statement. If there is a
>>>> female
>>>> version of Father Inire, the most likely candidate is Cumaean. One is
>>>> Father,
>>>> the other is The Mother. We hear them paired as alike but they are
>>>> never
>>>> quite
>>>> together. Inire has his monkey essence, the Cumaean has her snake
>>>> essence. I
>>>> don't know if they are supposed to be borne of the same original
>>>> entity
>>>> or not
>>>> but they could be.
>>>>
>>>> Given the Tzadkiel model, there is no reason there can't be multiple
>>>> versions
>>>> of the same being running around manipulating Severian's life and
>>>> travels. We
>>>> are told that not even Tzadkiel can resurrect a dead person. So, I
>>>> suspect,
>>>> neither can Father Inire (or the Cumaean, by herself). Perhaps it
>>>> wasn't
>>>> a
>>>> coincidence the boatman just happened to be there on the lake when
>>>> Severian
>>>> showed up. How else could he restore his long dead wife?
>>>>
>>>> Tzadkiel is an angel (who never comes to Urth). What is Inire?
>>>>
>>>> Genesis 6:1-8 seems to suggest that the purpose of The Flood was to
>>>> cleanse
>>>> the earth and humanity of a corruption brought on by the mating of
>>>> fallen
>>>> angels and human women, producing giants, demons, etc. Severian's
>>>> resistance to
>>>> the seduction of Juturna is significant. What is the purpose of the
>>>> Flood
>>>> of Urth? The same as the Biblical Flood, I think.
>>>>
>>>> I suspect that Wolfe is making the point that the fallen angels of
>>>> Judeo-Christianity bear a striking resemblance to the gods and
>>>> monsters
>>>> of pagan mythology and are, perhaps, one and the same. Incestuous,
>>>> large
>>>> sized,
>>>> animal essenced, shape-changing, other "magic" abilities, mating with
>>>> humans, the
>>>> pattern is fairly consistent. (Hephaestus is an artisan, bent and
>>>> twisted,
>>>> sometimes depicted with red hair).
>>>>
>>>> One more candidate for Father Inire- Cyriaca's book-loving "uncle" who
>>>> seems to
>>>> know so much about the inner workings of the Autarchy and the history
>>>> of
>>>> humanity
>>>> and the universe. And Cyriaca does share some characteristics with
>>>> Catherine.
>>>> Cyriaca's dark hair paired with a red-headed father might produce the
>>>> chestnut color
>>>> we find in Agia and Agilus. Thus the origin of the incestuous curse
>>>> which seems to
>>>> plague Severian's family- the Father.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Severian only screws his relatives, by logical extension "All You
>>>>> Zombies"
>>>>> is us and we are Inire, but we are not alone.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Yes. I once read a Gene Wolfe interview in which he said he was
>>>> unhappy
>>>> with his
>>>> status as an only child and spent much of his youth scouring the faces
>>>> of strangers
>>>> for signs of hidden family and lost kinship. This is more explicitly
>>>> themed in
>>>> Fifth Head of Cerberus but I think it makes a significant appearance
>>>> in
>>>> New Sun also.
>>>>
>>>> (p.s. the "battles" over these issues from a few years ago were
>>>> invaluable to me in
>>>> helping clarify my interpretations. I truly appreciate all those who
>>>> participated and
>>>> helped me)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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