(urth) Corundum of the Claw

[Sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org]

I've never used the name Jesus. Severian is not Jesus.
I know it's hard or 'wrong' for catholics to understand the historical jesus as an instance of The Logos in history, but that's how I see it.  All I've been saying in regards to Severian's 'divinity' has to do with this level of abstraction.  I see him as A Christ for Urth, and, NOT Jesus of Earth.  I'm also not trying to work ts into the Trinity. I don't see Severian as sharing some tripartite nature with The Father.  I liken it to PKD's notion of VALIS as the Logos, as the healing ray from The Outsider into the Black Iron Prison; something that is sent in from outside time to heal us.  I use Logos based on my understanding of the original greek notion of Ratio. That which reconciles God and Man. I see Jesus as one story about this reconciliation, and Severian's as another.  I'm not, have never, and wouldn't claim they are the same story.

~Witz

On Jun 24, 2010, at 11:58 AM, John Watkins <john.watkins04 at gmail.com> wrote:

> That's is an awfully thin reed for "Severian is supposed to literally
> be Jesus" rather than "Severian is supposed to parrallel Jesus in
> important ways".  Perhaps the distinction is irrelevant for a
> non-believer, but the author is not a non-believer.
> 
> On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Jordon Flato <jordonflato at gmail.com> wrote:
>> And Wolfe is on record as saying that the only thing we're ever told that
>> Jesus the Carpenter's son made was a Whip.
>> 
>> Witz and I have always been in agreeance on this, and because of that, I'm
>> more likely to find textual support for the idea than for the idea of him as
>> some sort of anti-christ.
>> 
>> On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 10:20 AM, Sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org
>> <Sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Jun 24, 2010, at 5:05 AM, David Stockhoff <dstockhoff at verizon.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> There's a bit in John that says (I paraphrase): Jesus does not come to
>>>> put the world on trial or to condemn it, but to rescue it.
>>>> 
>>>> Severian comes to carry out a death sentence.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I definitely feel that "the Sev is not divine" arguments are fine and
>>> appropriate, and I don't care to try to convince anyone, but I think it's a
>>> shame that people get hung up on this idea that Severian did a bad thing,
>>> that he "carried out a death sentance".
>>> This view is not, er, holistic to the themes. The most boiled down theme
>>> in this book, holographically repeated, is Death and Resurrection. We must
>>> not forget that.
>>> 
>>> Severian brought renewed life to the planet. the death of Urth was the
>>> birth of Ushas, and the resurection of the dying planet.  To miss this is to
>>> fundamentally misunderstand the books, I think.  To view this as a death
>>> sentence, one is basically taking the short sighted selfish side that
>>> Severian's foes had. They would deny the future for a few more years for
>>> themselves.
>>> Fuck that.  This is a cycle that we see in nature. The forest has to burn
>>> for it's own good, periodically.
>>> 
>>> I'm sorry, just about any reading goes, but to just see Severian's act as
>>> a just tradgedy seems to completely miss the point.
>>> 
>>> It had to be a torturer to deliver the death stroke that brought new life.
>>> No one else would obey. Everyone else prefers to save themselves and cling
>>> to their attachments like children.  Severian did a difficult, necessary,
>>> and beautiful thing.
>>> 
>>> ~witz
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>> 
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