(urth) Wall of Nessus

[Mr Thalassocrat]

On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Roy C. Lackey <rclackey at stic.net> wrote:

> Andrew quoted and wrote:
> > > Regardless of why hybrids were used in the Wall rather than humans, the
> > > point is that rulers (plural), before the autarchy, stationed defenders
> in
> > > the Wall. Typhon was the last ruler before the first autarch, Ymar, and
> > > those two were contemporaries. So, if Jonas is to be believed, the Wall
> was
> > > there before Typhon. That section of text also strongly suggests that
> the
> > > purpose of the Wall was to resist the mountain-sized monsters in the
> > > oceans.
> > >
> > >
> > But isn't that contradicted a little later in the same scene? IIRC, Sev
> > points out the walls aren't going to be much use against creatures the
> size
> > of Abaia, and Jonas agrees, indicating that the walls are actually for
> > defense against Abaia et al's human followers.
>
> Jonas said: "You were correct when you said Erebus and Abaia are as great
> as
> mountains, and I admit that I was surprised you knew it. Most people lack
> the imagination to conceive of anything so large, and think them no bigger
> than houses or ships. Their actual size is so great that while they remain
> on this world they can never leave the water - their own weight would crush
> them. You mustn't think of them battering at the Wall with their fists, or
> tossing boulders about. But by their thoughts they enlist servants, and
> they
> fling them against all rules that rival their own."


Just on a different tack, I think it's easy to miss what Jonas' actually
meant to explain in his interrupted story at the gate. I think it was
clearly offered in answer to Sev's question to Talos about why the
half-beast guards in the wall, not about the existence of the wall itself.

Jonas starts on his story, explaining that the citadel was built in the
olden days by the rulers of Urth to protect themselves against the populace.
Some people then left Urth to go amongst the stars, eventually returning.
One woman came back with magic seeds, defied the rulers and on being
condemned by them, cast the seeds the sea. The chaos at the gate prevents
Jonas from finishing. (I think I've remembered all of that correctly.)

So how would have Jonas' story ended? Presumably the casting of the seeds
leads to the presence of Abaia et al. How does *that* in turn lead to the
man-beasts? My guess goes like this: Abaia et al suborned some of the
populace; the rulers could trust nobody; they created the man-beasts as
creatures with hard-wired loyalty not susceptible to the lure of Abaia etc.

FWIW.





> I don't know if the sea monsters grew bigger over the years, as Baldanders
> did, so that they weren't so large when the Wall was first built that it
> would be useless against them, or if the Wall was effective only against
> man-sized foes under their control. Either way, the point I wanted to make
> is that Jonas's statements seem to indicate that the Wall was built before
> Typhon's time, and its purpose was to thwart the sea monsters' ambitions.
>
> > > That latter detail may be somewhat at odds with Cyriaca's story, and
> after
> > > Typhon was revived on the mountain he speaks as if the monsters in the
> > > oceans were news to him ("There are powers in the seas now who would
> rule."
> > > [SWORD, chap. XXVI] ), but that's the way it goes.
> > >
> > That "... in the seas *now* ..." is an annoying little itch. Of course,
> in
> > UOTNS and the susbequent cycle volumes, Abaia etc infest the seas in
> > Typhon's day.
>
> Yeah, annoying, and Cyriaca's story about the founding of the library,
> together with what that doctor who looked Sev over after he got zapped by
> that big gun had to say ("This coast is quake prone, as the old records
> indicate clearly enough--praise to our monarch, by the way, for having them
> brought here--" [URTH, 259] ), suggest that Typhon was the ruler who caused
> the curtain wall to be built around the collected writings, and the curtain
> wall is made of the same material as the Wall.
>
> -Roy
>
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