(urth) Allegory

[John Watkins]

I rather doubt that Tolkien considered The Pearl to be an allegory.  He took
the time to translate it, after all.

On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 11:03 PM, Jack Smith <jack.smith.1946 at gmail.com>wrote:

> "But I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always
> have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence.  I
> much prefer history, true or feigned, with its varied applicability to the
> thought and experience of readers.  I think that  many confuse
> 'applicability' with 'allegory'; but the one resides in the freedom of the
> reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author."  --Tolkien,
> Foreword to  The Lord of the Rings
>
> Best wishes,
> Jack
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 10:39 PM, Craig Brewer <cnbrewer at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I think it's important to remember that Tolkien was a scholar of ancient
>> languages who also had to spend plenty of time teaching medieval literature.
>> Apparently, his colleagues say that his reaction to "allegory" was
>> specifically targeted against the strain of _Piers Plowman_/_Confessio
>> Amantis_ brand that was part of his teaching duties and which he was of
>> course familiar with. (I'm getting this from my memory of _The Inklings_ and
>> other stuff from his letters.)
>>
>> To the point: what bothered him about allegory was what it did to
>> mythology and romance in the middle ages, such as removing it from its
>> original context and placing a veneer of teaching or instruction over it.
>> But Tolkien himself was not averse to literature-with-an-overt "message," if
>> that's what we mean by allegory. The Eddas, Beowulf, even the Bible, all of
>> which he loved for their mythic status, are generally "allegorical" but not
>> allegorical in the same way that _The Romance of the Rose_ or _The Pearl_ is
>> allegorical. They model a way of living, a mindset, an idealized culture,
>> etc., but they aren't allegorical in the reductive way that _Pilgrim's
>> Progress_ has walking personifications and where meanings can be decoded in
>> a this-means-that relationship.
>>
>> They also aren't topically allegorical, and of course Tolkien hated the
>> idea that LotR was sometimes received as a big anti-Germany "allegory." I
>> think Tolkien was fine with the general idea that his books could be thought
>> of as contributing to thinking about certain situations like that -- after
>> all, what use is myth if it doesn't try to define our outlook? But he
>> resisted the idea that his books were allegory if that meant that you say
>> "Sauron is Hitler" and walk away thinking you solved the puzzle.
>>
>> Relation to Wolfe? I've always put New Sun in the same category as
>> Spenser's _Faerie Queene_, which is a very non-reductive allegory that uses
>> its symbols to create interesting ambiguities rather than just reduce an
>> icon to a static meaning. New Sun's imagery often works the same way for me.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com>
>> To: The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net>
>> Sent: Sat, June 5, 2010 9:14:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: (urth) traveling north
>>
>> On 6/5/2010 7:34 PM, brunians at brunians.org wrote:
>> > He'd whine loudly.
>>
>> In the interview he said he disliked allegory wherever he smelled it. But
>> that didn't stop him from producing some, however unintentionally.
>>
>> -- Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com
>> IEEE Student Chapter Blog at
>> < http://ieeetamut.org >
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>
>
>
> --
> Best wishes,
> Jack
>
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