(urth) Fr Inire + Cumean + others (was: Re: Inire as a hierodule)
Craig Brewer
cnbrewer at yahoo.com
Sat Jul 17 06:15:49 PDT 2010
>I'm inclined to disagree with this, invoking Occam's Razor; it's simply
>unnecessary.
Not criticizing the theory of the Cumean, but I just find it awesome that you
invoke Occam's Razor to eliminate the possibility that she's an alien in favor
of the vicissitudes of four-dimensional perception as related to Hindu/Buddhist
cosmology.
----- Original Message ----
From: Jane Delawney <jane_delawney at sky.com>
To: The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net>
Sent: Fri, July 16, 2010 6:40:55 PM
Subject: (urth) Fr Inire + Cumean + others (was: Re: Inire as a hierodule)
Just a couple of quick thoughts.
On 16/07/10 15:34, Lee Berman wrote:
> I think it can matter a lot. Borski assumed Inire was a hierodule and
>consequently short-
> lived and consequently only able to move backwards in time and consquently an
>obedient
> servant of the hierogrammates, etc. He took his error (I believe it to be one
I do too, I don't see the evidence for it. Borski relies entirely too much on
the alleged naming conventions IMO.
> , though
> Andre-Driussi doesn't) and ran so ridiculously far with it, he undercut much of
>the
> credibility of his Solar Labyrinth book IMHO.
>
agreed.
> So, where does The Cumaean fit into the scheme of things? Borski casts her as
>sort of a
> Mother Inire, a paired, parallel but less important than Inire hierodule
>character.
> But she isn't tall and beautiful nor short-lived. Any others have thoughts on
>her?
>
Regarding the Cumean, there seems to be an assumption (based primarily upon the
vision of her as a many eyed serpent during Sev's first experience at the Stone
Town) that she's an alien; that while the Witches regard her as one of their own
she's not human but a representative (hierodule? Hierogrammate?) of the hieros
upon Urth.
I'm inclined to disagree with this, invoking Occam's Razor; it's simply
unnecessary.
Sev's vision is entirely in accordance with the Hindu/Buddhist cosmology Wolfe
invokes in many places (manvantaras and all that) and represents a vision of the
'Long Body' of an 'occult' initate ie. in BOTNS terms, a witch. 'Long Body'?
well, that would be the body of a human or other living being seen from a
four-dimensional POV; from that POV your body, mine, everyone else's, would
definitely seem many eyed and snake-like!
To elaborate: since Time is the fourth dimension, the 'body' appears as a
snake-like form from the 'outside' as it were; from (perhaps) the 'divine' point
of view which Sev seems to achieve, momentarily, during this experience.
'Divine'? Well maybe that's a bit tendentious. 'Outside of the temporal
universe' perhaps; Sev adverts to this point of view a few times, stating that
every being that has ever lived is alive 'somewhere / when', and also asserting
strenuously that he believes his Autarchia, Valeria, is still alive ...
*somewhere*. Yes she is; from one who can perceive directly, or imagine, the
temporal universe from some place 'outside' time, she is alive indeed in her own
segment of the four-dimensional world. It's learning to jump into and out of
this world at the desired / destined points, that is the real trick; learning to
navigate the Corridors of Time, in other words.
>
> Perhaps Ossipago is worth discussing here. Borski thinks he is Inire. I don't.
>I think he
> is one of the machines that humanity built which then created the
>hierogrammates. The phrase
> "deus ex machina" is hinted at toward the end of Citadel and I've always liked
>how Ossipago's
> role in the story fits both the literal and theatrical meaning of that phrase.
>
I find I'm in disagreement not only with Borski, but with Andre-Driussi about
the three known and named Hierodules. Both seem to assume that since Ossipago
can be translated as 'bone grower', he, although basically a mechanism, is the
nurse / guardian of both Famulimus and Barbatus. I think it makes far more sense
in the context of the New Sun opus that all three names have some relevance to a
role vs. Severian himself: Ossipago being the 'demigod' who oversees his growth
from babyhood; Barbatus the one who sees him through puberty (Barbatus = name of
minor Roman deity responsible for the sprouting of the first beard of the
adolescent boy) and Famulimus the one who keeps him on the moral (as opposed to
traditional) straight and narrow: the famulimus is the Roman minor deity
responsible for a person's reputation, and s/he is presumably rooting for Sev
as he makes the very difficult decsion to go for basic good vs. evil morality
rather than for guild tradition (which kind of turns good and evil on their
heads in this context) as he grants mercy to Thecla at his own future's expense
(he had every reason as he did what he did to expect that he would be executed
for his 'crime'; this is therefore a real sacrifice of self for the greater
good).
don't know if any of this is of any interest, but I've been mulling over the
statements of the various commentators on all of these questions and given the
thread, this seemed a good place to comment.
Again forgive me please for modifying the header a little, I really really want
to get my list posts sent back to me, and my ISP won't do it unless I start a
'new' thread.
regards
JD
>
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