(urth) City on Green

[Roy C. Lackey]

Gerry Quinn quoted and wrote:
> From: "James Wynn" <crushtv at gmail.com>
> >> G Quinn-
>
> >> Correct me if I'm wrong - but didn't Wolfe say he was joking when he
said
> >> Urth is Green, and that he regretted it?
> >
> > Well, he said he should just keep his mouth shut. It's a pretty random
> > joke if that's all it was. The nasty sarcasm in such a joke totally
alien
> > to my interactions with Wolfe. But none of that explains the actual
> > textual references in the novel.
>
> What textual references?  There may be some metaphorical references, but I
> don't recall anywhere at all where the text seems to be seriously implying
> that these planets are literally the same place.
>
> >> And do you not accept that the four points I made are somewhat cogent
> >> when it comes to the question of whether these planets are the same?
> >
> > What we have is a paradox. These planets cannot be the same. But the
story
> > has some very significant that references that equate the Green and
> > possibly the City of the Inhumi with Urth and the Neighbors and their
> > culture with Urth and Nessus and humanity. I think we should embrace the
> > paradox in order to find out what is going on. Pretending nothing weird
is
> > going on is not going to get us anywhere.
>
> I think you are only seeing a paradox because you take certain metaphors
too
> literally.  I have yet to be convinced that there is any paradox to
embrace
> (or otherwise solve).

It isn't going to make any difference; I know because I've been through this
before, but I have to say something before I just get disgusted and leave
the List, which is probably what I should do anyway. Facts are facts,
regardless of who likes them or doesn't. There seem to be some people left
who put more stock in the text than fanciful interpretations that belie it
or distort it beyond reason. Maybe this will interest those people.

There has been a lot of crap bandied about of late that I don't have the
time or interest to get involved with, but one issue, the notion that the
City of the Inhumi is actually Nessus, really bugs me. It just isn't so, and
no amount of wishing will make it so. Silkhorn wrote down the story he told
at dinner at Inclito's house about Horn's encounter with the Neighbor on
Green who wanted him to clear the sewer. He wrote:

"The buildings of that city were not built by the inhumi themselves, for the
inhumi do not like tools or use them skillfully. Its builders were the
Vanished People, the same master builders who began this gracious house of
yours." (IGJ, 60) And to anticipate the argument that Silkhorn doesn't know
where he is or Horn was, there is the testimony of the same Neighbor. After
walking through the ruins of the city that is crumbling under the onslaught
of the encroaching jungle, the Neighbor said:
---------------
    "How we deceived ourselves!" the man of the Vanished People who had been
his guide said. "We thought we were building here for the ages. Another
thousand years, and everything you see will be gone." (63)
---------------

Even if Silkhorn had his head up his ass, I don't see how anyone could
believe that the Neighbors didn't know who they were, where they came from,
or what they themselves had built. And to suggest that the Neighbor just
lied is not credible. There are other details that unimaginative assholes
like me notice that indicate that the City on Green is not Nessus. The black
sword that Horn was given came from a selection of swords inside a "bronze
tablet" (23) that was located in a ruined building. There was a black sheath
that came with it, and a sword belt with many thin straps (24) that "had
never been intended for such a body as his (61). That is, not a human body.

Soon after Horn and the Neighbor entered the sewer they came to "an altar of
bronze and stone" (64). Behind it was an image too worn for Horn to make out
what it looked like. The Neighbor told him, "This was our goddess of
purity". That is, it was a Neighbor shrine for a Neighbor goddess. Horn
prayed to it and was rewarded with the little light that he used in the
sewer.

There is no doubt about it; the ruined City on Green was built by the
Neighbors, for the Neighbors and used by the Neighbors before they abandoned
it. If this is another "asinine" reading by me of the simple textual facts,
so be it.

Gerry, you seem to have gotten all over you a lot of crap that really has
more to do with me than you, as you have probably figured out by now. Sorry
about that, but I'm not flinging it. <g>

-Roy