(urth) the voice of the outsider is the conjunction of pas/kypris

[Marc Aramini]

Thanks James and Lee for your comments.  If a theory is perceived at first as brilliant, it can be dangerous to elaborate too much to risk sounding ordinary once again, but let me try to take a slightly better thematic stab  at it.
 
The sun books overarching, unifying trope beyond even salvation is that imitation begets truth.  Severian says time turns our lies into truth, and the process of creating a closed universe of the whorl with himself as a god within it made something much more noble out of Typhon (ie - the immortal computerized intellect of Pas is morally more respectable than Typhon even though it is the culmination of Typhon's attempts to become a God, the height of his hubris.)  
 
And even though he is clearly Satanic, his attempts to become god-like and his creation of a closed system with the possibility of a messiah/heir already built in make him a positive force (ie- the whorl is ready for Silk to come and take over because it has been programmed that way by its demiurge Typhon, just as in the Christian view of the B.C. world the world was ready and waiting for its messiah)
 
I am not sure that teasing out the actual implications matter, because Silk was the result of all that tampering, and he is probably the most morally unambiguous hero Wolfe has ever created.  (and the imitation goes even further - Horn is only good at all because of his respect for Silk, while the truly good Silk, guilty over the demise of Horn, spends all of In Green's Jungles and Return to the Whorl denying who he is so that the less noble and less righteous Horn might really still be alive).  (or conversely, did the truly good Silk only exist in Horn's mind and in his account of the salvation of the people of the whorl?)
 
Now, as far as your implications, Lee, whether the Christian God is some kind of amoeba like proteus may be symbolically presaged by several personages in the text: the mother and her little break away parts, tzadkiel waiting in the brook madregot, etc.  So, whether or not I want to say that Wolfe's picture of God is really that way, symbolically your analysis seems right, anything that imitates the divine enough, even with BAD OR SELFISH INTENTIONS, can still wind up serving the greater good.  
 
However, there is certainly a negative side to Silk's enlightenment having a rational physical explanation, and once again this is attached to hubris and the malleability of our perceptions on morality and absolute goodness and evil.
 
Wolfe is the trickiest of authors, because even basic questions about identity, good, and evil are very very complicated.  However, there is one thing I want to point out from the Soldier books as well.  
 
"I ran across a tribe years ago who blieve that the War God's none other than Ahura Mazda - Ahura Mazda incognito, as it were.  Perhaps they're right.  How did you know where to look for me?" (472)  
 
 

This progression from Ahura Mazda to Pleistorus to Latro himself is important to my theory of what is going on in those books (ie - the war god manifests himself as a mortal warrior, becomes jaded with war and death, and actually allows the paradigm shift in the amorphous divinity that allows Christ to come into creation, since Ahura Mazda's avatar Latro is tired of war).
 
Don't know if that applies, but that is DEFINITELY more like what you were talking about, Lee.  And I think it definitely applies at least to my own interpretation of what is really going on in the Soldier books if not the Sun books.
 
Thanks for taking the time to read all that!
Marc
 

--- On Sun, 12/19/10, Lee Berman <severiansola at hotmail.com> wrote:


From: Lee Berman <severiansola at hotmail.com>
Subject: (urth) the voice of the outsider is the conjunction of pas/kypris
To: urth at lists.urth.net
Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010, 9:11 AM




>I wouldn't want anyone to miss the subversiveness of Marc's theory. He's 
>saying the Outsider is actually Typhon and Kypris manipulating him.

I agree that it is subversive but I get the opposite impression of Marc's theory. If 
anything, The Outsider as the One True God is manipulating Typhon and Kypris. Quite
a briliant theory/concept, actually (and Marc correct me if I'm wrong, but risk dimming the 
brilliance, ;-))

It is subversive in that it suggests the almighty, incomprehensible God of Briah, at times, will 
split Himself into pieces which can operate directly at the human level. Proper (and inevitable) 
human action will reuinite the pieces in the proper way to provide a miraculous, human-level ephiphany 
or syngergy or something which truly expresses God in a way we can almost comprehend and understand. 
Kypris + Pas.  Severian + Apheta. etc.


This is subversive in that it might suggest our Earthy God does the same thing; spliting himself
into ancient nature gods, then reforming. Then splitting into Olympian gods then coalescing again.
Could it be that Jesus was just one such synergy among many in our history. Dionysus, Buddha, Muhammed
etc.  Could it mean we are due for another?

What gods do we worship now which could be coalesced into a global epiphany? Jahweh, Allah, Brahma and 
Satan?  Science, economics, politics and warfare? I dunno.


Well, I've taken it places Marc probably never intended. But I'm interested to see his own interpretation
of what he is saying.

> On 12/18/2010 10:49 PM, Marc Aramini wrote:
>> Okay, the problem with the syncretism of Wolfe's universe is 
>> multifold for interpreting whether a "Jesus" exists.  Some of Silk's 
>> "Enlightenment" seems to have scenes of the life of Christ, without a 
>> doubt.  Unfortunately, they have a secular explanation.  They are 
>> pre-recorded in his head from his father Pas and his mother the blue 
>> eyed Kypris, or Typhon and his mistress, who I believe to be the blue 
>> eyed dark haired sleeper Mamelta.  The two voices speaking in his 
>> head is the voice of the Outsider, who is for all intents and 
>> purposes both our God and Typhon in conjunction with his Mistress, 
>> the goddess of love.  Wolfe makes Crane's explanation seem lame but 
>> there is a real physical explanation for it since Silk is a planted 
>> grown embryo specially chosen by Typhon who "wants an heir".  All the 
>> enlightenment is secular, BUT THAT DOESN"T MEAN IT ISN"T DIVINE TOO.
>> This is why Wolfe is so amazing and all these divergent 
>> interpretations are possible.  Sure, the Outsider seems to be the 
>> Christian God, but he is all the pagan gods, and Typhon in love, the 
>> Satan figure redeemed by the love that sets free.  The degraded and 
>> the downcast become something much more, whether it be Severian 
>> becoming the Conciliator or Typhon becoming the Outsider, or at least 
>> a very important agent of the Outsider whose plan is indistinguishable.
>> Marc
>>                           
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