(urth) (no subject)

[Son of Witz]

Good post Craig.

I want anyone who is paying attention to what I've written to understand clearly that I don't think Wolfe has rendered a cosmology that actually models his belief system in BotNS, nor do I think he does that in his other works, of which I have only read a small portion.

The discussion is perhaps complicated by the idea that there are "two authors", one translating the other from a different culture.  I think it is undeniable that Severian takes all of his philosophical musings with heartfelt seriousness. As a reader and an artist, I just don't feel that an author would invest that many pages in such musings if he didn't hold them somewhat dearly. (of course, an author writing a propaganda piece would, but I don't smell that stink on the Sun Series.)

I merely suggest that Wolfe has his own deeply felt philosophical ideas that have been expertly EXPLORED in the permutations of these twelve novels. I do not think he has made a literal map of his views.  That people seem to think this is my view is part of why I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall. I'm talking about METAPHOR. This is why I'm always trying to swat off the "yeah but if Jesus didn't give his sermon in briah" nonsense.  It's waaaay too literal take on a Speculative Metaphysical Fantasy, in my opinion. Your milage may vary.

To that end, I think a few things SEEM fairly undeniable about the real world author of these books philosophical / metaphysical views:

He seems to believe the realm of humanity is a fallen realm that needs regeneration and salvation from powers beyond the stage of Earth.

He seems to believe in the unity of seeming opposites on fundamental aspects of reality like Resurrection & Death, Past & Future, Good & Evil, etc.

He seems to have a heartfelt belief that the soul transcends death.

He seems to have digested the human condition exeedingly well, and is capable of rendering the grandest human notions against the most common human foibles.

He seems to write using many extremely loaded metaphysical symbols because he is deeply concerned about the realities that these symbols represent to the humanity. They work too well and run too deep to be some post-modern monkey-shines.

Does anyone honestly think this small list is off the mark?

 ~Witz








On Dec 16, 2010, at 7:58 AM, Craig Brewer <cnbrewer at yahoo.com> wrote:

>> I think BotNS explores many deeply felt philosophical
>> ideas of ideas of it's author.
>> If  you don't, make of it what you will.  There are some
>> neat action scenes  and weird characters to be found
>> amidst all the endless philosophical  and theological
>> musings if you don't think that stuff matters.
> 
> I don't think anyone really doubts that angle. There may be plenty of doubt 
> about WHICH philosophical ideas he's working with, but we all like the books 
> because of that depth, I'd imagine.
> 
> I think there's an important distinction, though, between recognizing that the 
> books explore philosophical aspects of ideas that Wolfe is heavily invested in 
> and the idea that all of his works have to straightforwardly reflect his actual 
> beliefs.
> 
> So, for example: what if New Sun is Wolfe exploring a world where there never 
> was a Christ, as was suggested by one of the interview quotes that came up 
> yesterday? Such a possibility might well be compatible with the "atheist" 
> reading of New Sun that was bandied about when we were talking about Peter 
> Wright's book awhile back. Then you'd have Wolfe writing a "what-if" book where 
> the overt cosmology was opposed to what he actually believed at some level, even 
> if it was also informed by his actual beliefs about how fallen such a world 
> might actually be. Or Wizard Knight: one way to read that book is to say that 
> it's a book about a kid/guy trying to be good when he doesn't have a strong 
> Christian model to follow. It doesn't, of course, mean that Wolfe actually 
> believes in a cosmology of seven levels without a Christian God behind it all, 
> etc.
> 
> I've said this a lot lately, and I'm starting to bore myself, so one last time 
> and then I'll shut up: but I'm skeptical of the perspective that sees Wolfe as 
> creating an intricate cosmology, where buried behind his fictions is his actual 
> outline of how the universe works where the Greek gods line up in a hierarchy 
> with Christian theology and multiple universes co-exist in such and such a way, 
> etc. Instead, I find Wolfe to be using all of these ideas (some of which he 
> might actually believe, some of which he might not) in order to explore 
> philosophical and existential consequences of his beliefs. And, for me, the most 
> interesting and relevant aspect of those ideas have to do with what it means for 
> how his characters live their lives, and less about what Wolfe's particular 
> theological or "supernatural" beliefs might be. For me, it's always a much more 
> interesting question to ask, say, "In what way is Severian like and unlike 
> Christ, and how hard is it for him to be a good man in the situation in which he 
> finds himself?" than it is to spend a lot of mental effort trying to figure out 
> whether he actually is a Christ or whether his universe is related to ours as a 
> parallel or previous universe with or without an actual moment of salvation, 
> etc.
> 
> The latter kinds of questions turn Wolfe into an esoteric, if fascinating, 
> myth-maker -- but I don't believe the same myths and, so, ultimately his ideas 
> would simply be curiosities to me. But it also seems to lose a certain human 
> focus for me since the questions start to become more about what Wolfe himself 
> believes than about what we might learn about the consequences of his ideas. 
> Severian's story has always mattered to me in a very personal and even moral way 
> apart from whatever cosmological puzzles lie behind it. All of the world and 
> cosmology-building is fascinating, but it's not why I've always liked Wolfe.
> 
> Mini-rant over. I should go back to semi-lurking. :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Urth Mailing List
> To post, write urth at urth.net
> Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net