(urth) Father Inire Theory cont.

[David Stockhoff]

Lee, I'm not trying to be unfair. The Devil runs a very different kind 
of game than does Lucifer. They are not the same. If you say Devil, I 
read Devil. If you say Lucifer, I read Lucifer. It helps to say what you 
mean as much as you can---it would save us all a lot of words. :)

I do see the difference between the Serpent, who lies in whispers, and 
Lucifer, who rebelled and rules the deep. Inire does not rule anything. 
He is a flatterer, however ...  a Wormtongue.

Right, I recall the chained-god discussion now. Yes, Inire may be bound 
to Urth in some way, and this is not too different from Lucifer's being 
condemned to Hell. Yet he is not ruler of Urth ... as far as we know.

If Inire is the Serpent---a particular manifestation of Lucifer, who may 
or may not manifest differently elsewhere, outside the frame of the 
story---he doesn't need to be really obviously evil. He doesn't need to 
personify evil, just lies. He doesn't need to be everywhere. He just 
needs to be in the right place at the right time saying just the wrong 
thing. The Serpent only committed one crime, after all.

Yes, if Urth is Abaddon (which was the calculation I always reached in 
reading those passages but couldn't see how that could work), then the 
Commonwealth is a fallen, gnostic Paradise on Urth with Inire as the 
Serpent. This theory explains why Inire is hidden so much from 
us---Wolfe doesn't want us asking too many questions.

No, I don't think Hethor needs to be Inire. Only Inire needs to be Inire.



On 12/10/2010 2:43 PM, Lee Berman wrote:
>> David Stockhoff- Lucifer, on the other hand, could fit the bill.
>
> David this feels unfair. I am trying to be concise and brief in this limited
> format. When I say "The Devil" it is with the expectation that you will do
> some of the work for me and realize there are multiple names and interpretations
> of The Devil and how Father Inire may fit (or not fit) them. I can't spell out
> everything here. I am feeling mentally strained now, to be honest and I could use
> help more than challenge at the current time. As it happens, Lucifer will be
> mentioned in the example I will give tomorrow.
>
>> Is he basically trapped on Urth, as in Milton? (If so, how can he travel through
>> mirrors? There was some discussion of that.) If he has truly lost his ability to leave Urth,
>> then we might have a strong connection.
>
> Does he travel through mirrors? Or is he restricted to receiving objects (and creatures)
> through them? The Jungle Hut scene might indicate travel, if he is Isangoma. Or it might
> indicate that he is unable to travel and must create other worlds/times in the form of a
> human (and other species) zoo.
>
> I'll mention that various board contributors have compared Fr. Inire to Fenrir, Prometheus, Moses,
> Azazel and perhaps others, all trapped or chained, mostly gift-bringers to humanity, some gods, some
> religious figures, some fallen angels in the mix.
>
>> Inire is everywhere a vizier needs to be. But he isn't everywhere..
> Heh. One of the criticisms of my Father Inire Theory is that he is too much everywhere.
>
>> isn't truly evil...
> Through whose eyes are we seeing him? I say his creation, the Commonwealth,
> and perhaps all Urth is evil. It gets the Flood treatment. Why?
>
>
>> ...and he isn't rebelling against anything.
>
> If Hethor, the mutineer, was shown to be a version of him, would you reassess that?
>
>
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