(urth) the voice of the outsider is the conjunction ofpas/kypris

[Gerry Quinn]

From: "Lee Berman" <severiansola at hotmail.com>
>>Gerry: The first can easily be interpreted as just sleep imagery, lots of 
>>faces
>>and people running together.
>
> Easily only if there was a real person sleeping. There is not. There is an 
> author
> creating this scene with carefully chosen words. It is actually quite 
> difficult for
> me to interpret this as Gene Wolfe randomly throwing faces and people 
> together with
> no meaning to it other than conveying a dream atmosphere.

Most of his dream is about the fish that swallowed Mamelta.  It also 
includes Lemur, and certain women.  The women seem to be ones Silk 
associates with sex to some degree.  It's not randomly thrown together, but 
nor is it necessarily a cipher by which one can decode the meaning of the 
entire text.   If it does mean something, maybe it suggests we should think 
more about that fish!

>>Marc: his mother would come to kiss him good-night; he liked to be awake 
>>for it, to
>>say distinctly, 'good night to you, too Mama,'
>
>>Gerry: In the second, while it can certainly be argued that Silk's dream 
>>and Mamelta's
>>name are tips to the reader, it is inescapable that Silk himself is 
>>thinking of his
>>non-biological mother, and therefore not Mamelta.
>
> Again, we are not dealing with a real person named Silk. Therefore 
> whatever Silk may be
> "thinking" is secondary in importance to "tips to the Reader". Gene 
> Wolfe's main purpose in
> writing is to communicate to his readers not to create independent, 
> imaginary characters
> without meaning to the reader.

But he is communicating by way of a novel, asnd to do this he must create 
characters with some element of versimilitude.  You cannot simply ignore the 
events of the novel in favour of what might be one of a million 
interpretations of apparent allusions.

>>Marc: on which he danced with Kypris, who was Hyacinth and Mother, too."
>
>>Gerry- In the third, it may be that Kypris is - in Silk's thoughts - 
>>representing all women.
>
> Or it may be that Wolfe repeatedly connecting Mamelta and Hyacinth and 
> Mother and Kypris in
> various ways is once again trying to tell the reader something. Perhaps it 
> is something more than
> simply "some women = all women".  I'm willing to take a hint.

By all means!  But what about the part of my post that you didn't reply to, 
concerning: the acts and words of Mamelta herself?  Gene Wolfe wrote those 
too, you know!  Are you willing to take a hint from that part?  If so, how 
do you reconcile it with your interpretations of the parts above?

I *don't* think Wolfe throws things together randomly.  So I try to find an 
interpretation that fits the different clues.

- Gerry Quinn