(urth) Brook Madregot runs between
James Wynn
crushtv at gmail.com
Wed Aug 11 08:08:45 PDT 2010
>> I said:
>> Lee,The problem is much bigger than this single phrase. As I detailed, that
>> entire passage makes the construct that Yesod is in our chain of
>> universes untenable, however much I am viscerally inclined to that model.
>>
>
> Lee replied:
> James, I went back and re-read your post and again I couldn't find anything
> that makes Yesod as successor to Briah as untenable. Perhaps you can explain?
>
> For, example the bit about vantage point, looking both forward and back. I don't
> see the need for leapfrogging universes. As I see it the Hiero race created Hierogrammates but perished in the destruction of Briah. Hierogrammates were able to escape to the next universe, Yesod. They are parked at the beginning of Yesod. Hence Severian doesn't have to travel far to reach the Yesod planet. With this "machine planet" Hierogrammates are in the process of constructing the future planets of Yesod, including, eventually, Earth (not Urth).
>
But Lee, there's no reason for the Hierogrammates to get involved in
Briah if they came from there. The event that led to the creation of
their race has positively occurred there without their help. Let me
repost the passages again:
>>"I was not told what became of the Humanity of that cycle. Perhaps it
survived until
>>the implosion of the universe, then perished with it. Perhaps it
evolved beyond our
>>recognition. But the beings Humanity had shaped into what men and
women wished to
>>be escaped, opening a passage to Yesod, the universe higher than our
own, where they
>>created worlds suited to what they had become. From that vantage point
>>*they look both forward and back*, and in so looking they have
discovered us."
There is simply no reason at all for the Hierogrammates to "look back"
to Briah if they were created there. And they would hardly have to
search hard to find Severian. And by your model. there's no reason
believe it is especially easy for them to look forward at all. But by
your model, they aren't looking forward. Only back.
> Thus from this early Yesod vantage point they are able both to work forward to construct the future of Yesod and send agents back to Briah to ensure their own creation. Does this work?
No. Let me explain. Before the passage quoted above, Severian says:
>>"The hammer they wield is their ability to draw their servants back,
down the corridors
>>of time, and to send them hurtling forward to the future. *(This
power is in essence the
>>same as that which permitted them to evade the death of their
universe--to enter the
>>corridors of time is to leave the universe.)*"
If the power to move into the Corridors of Time is the same as escaping
a universe, one would have to conclude --by your model-- that those
weird corridors are just a mundane location in early Yesod. But then why
should not everyone in Briah be able to easily move through Time in
Yesod and Abbadon as well? Additionally, Yesod would be useless for
traveling in Time within Yesod.
So this is why I say that Yesod being a meta-universe beyond Briah and
Abbadon and the next universe is the only tenable model.
u+16b9
>
>
>
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